One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[Iconoclast]

Ike,

This argument is pointless. Apparently you are the only one who is able to pick up these clues. I look at the GSG and I sure as hell don't see James. If you think you can, then more power to you.

c.d.

I'm sure that you have worked-out by now that "being the only one who" does not restrain me, but rather frees me? Many have been "the only one" before and they are now simply "one of many", so the lack of common agreement on this is not a concern in the slightest for me. It inspires me.

What does concern me is that you are incapable of seeing that the word 'Juwes' has a very close structural similarity to 'James'. So less power to you.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

Ike,

This argument is pointless. Apparently you are the only one who is able to pick up these clues. I look at the GSG and I sure as hell don't see James. If you think you can, then more power to you.

c.d.

I should have added that what you should have typed was "This argument is pointless to me". Unless you already know for certain that you speak for the many?

There are a lot more people in the world than post on this site. There a lot more people on this site than who post. I'd be wary of associating "most people who post agree with me" with "I am right because most people who post agree with me".

Ike

[rjpalmer]

The Manchester geography thing is interesting. You are of course factually correct, but you assume just because someone calls somehwere Manchester that it also must be factually correct. Manchester had many cotton mill towns in and around close proximity to the city, so someone could quite easily feel it was all Manchester, even if the town was 20 miles north of Manchester city centre. Horwich in fact had a train station open in 1870 on the Manchester to Preston line. If we accept 40mph as the average train speeds of the time then they would be in Horwich within 30 minutes. Question is would you use general areas or be specific in the context of the era? Even with that, they would have had to have travelled out of Manchester city and back to Manchester city if they wanted to return to Liverpool. It's all Manchester to me.

Hi Erobitha

This argument might hold water if it was someone was visiting modern-day Manchester from the United States or Johannesburg, but would a Liverpool resident from the 1880s refer to Horwich as Manchester? It seems most unlikely. It seems to me that the closer we are to our home environs, the more specific we are in regards to geography. I might conceivably refer to Guildford as London, but I doubt Caz or Lord Orsam would.

I can't readily find the football match again; perhaps I will look again later. Island weather does pose a problem.

'Damp' anywhere in the UK in early spring can hardly be considered a coincidence.

'Cold,' on the other hand, is relative. Even if we only accept the weather report you posted from Swinton, being "favored with something like decent weather" sounds like an improvement over the previous week, doesn't it? It may not be a ringing endorsement, but would the diarist be grumbling about a cold and damp 'hell hole' if the weather was improving?

Ike- maybe C.D. is subtly suggesting that you read Karl Popper.

[c.d.]

What does concern me is that you are incapable of seeing that the word 'Juwes' has a very close structural similarity to 'James'. So less power to you.

Actually "Juwes" is much closer to "Jewels" than James which would make my interpretation correct and yours wrong. But apparently you have rigged the game so that only your interpretation can be the correct one. You have powers way beyond the rest of us, Ike. Damn near a super hero. "Interpretation Man?" That does have a ring to it I must say.

c.d.

[erobitha]

Hi Erobitha

This argument might hold water if it was someone was visiting modern-day Manchester from the United States or Johannesburg, but would a Liverpool resident from the 1880s refer to Horwich as Manchester? It seems most unlikely. It seems to me that the closer we are to our home environs, the more specific we are in regards to geography. I might conceivably refer to Guildford as London, but I doubt Caz or Lord Orsam would.

I can't readily find the football match again; perhaps I will look again later. Island weather does pose a problem.

'Damp' anywhere in the UK in early spring can hardly be considered a coincidence.

'Cold,' on the other hand, is relative. Even if we only accept the weather report you posted from Swinton, being "favored with something like decent weather" sounds like an improvement over the previous week, doesn't it? It may not be a ringing endorsement, but would the diarist be grumbling about a cold and damp 'hell hole' if the weather was improving?

Ike- maybe C.D. is subtly suggesting that you read Karl Popper.

RJ,

I accept 20 miles outside Manchester is not Manchester City. But the diarist doesn’t specify city he just says Manchester. Which does leave it broad. Is it 20 miles broad? I don’t think you or I in modern context would think that was acceptable but without cars and just trains as the most speedy way to travel, and the fact Manchester City is in effect his conduit to the cotton towns - is it so unfeasible he just paints a broad brush of Manchester?

Also on the note of weather I don’t recall he said he only stayed for one day and could have been in the area of Manchester in various towns visiting various spots over numerous days. I don’t believe in the diary he indicated this was a day trip.

Its all in the eye of the reader and how they interpret the words on the page I guess.

Regards,

Erobitha

[Iconoclast]

RJ,

I accept 20 miles outside Manchester is not Manchester City. But the diarist doesn’t specify city he just says Manchester. Which does leave it broad. Is it 20 miles broad? I don’t think you or I in modern context would think that was acceptable but without cars and just trains as the most speedy way to travel, and the fact Manchester City is in effect his conduit to the cotton towns - is it so unfeasible he just paints a broad brush of Manchester?

Also on the note of weather I don’t recall he said he only stayed for one day and could have been in the area of Manchester in various towns visiting various spots over numerous days. I don’t believe in the diary he indicated this was a day trip.

Its all in the eye of the reader And how they interpret the words on the page I guess.

Regards,

Erobitha

Replying to wrong post.

[Iconoclast]

What does concern me is that you are incapable of seeing that the word 'Juwes' has a very close structural similarity to 'James'. So less power to you.

Actually "Juwes" is much closer to "Jewels" than James which would make my interpretation correct and yours wrong. But apparently you have rigged the game so that only your interpretation can be the correct one. You have powers way beyond the rest of us, Ike. Damn near a super hero. "Interpretation Man?" That does have a ring to it I must say.

c.d.

Oh dear. That was so embarrassing to read.

If you can still edit it, c.d., I would.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

Ike- maybe C.D. is subtly suggesting that you read Karl Popper.

I don't think he was, Roger.

[c.d.]

Oh dear. That was so embarrassing to read.

If you can still edit it, c.d., I would.

Ike

Nah, I'm good but thanks for the suggestion.

c.d.

[erobitha]

Hi Erobitha

This argument might hold water if it was someone was visiting modern-day Manchester from the United States or Johannesburg, but would a Liverpool resident from the 1880s refer to Horwich as Manchester? It seems most unlikely. It seems to me that the closer we are to our home environs, the more specific we are in regards to geography. I might conceivably refer to Guildford as London, but I doubt Caz or Lord Orsam would.

I can't readily find the football match again; perhaps I will look again later. Island weather does pose a problem.

'Damp' anywhere in the UK in early spring can hardly be considered a coincidence.

'Cold,' on the other hand, is relative. Even if we only accept the weather report you posted from Swinton, being "favored with something like decent weather" sounds like an improvement over the previous week, doesn't it? It may not be a ringing endorsement, but would the diarist be grumbling about a cold and damp 'hell hole' if the weather was improving?

Ike- maybe C.D. is subtly suggesting that you read Karl Popper.

RJ,

I accept 20 miles outside Manchester is not Manchester City. But the diarist doesn’t specify city he just says Manchester. Which does leave it broad. Is it 20 miles broad? I don’t think you or I in modern context would think that was acceptable but without cars and just trains as the most speedy way to travel, and the fact Manchester City is in effect his conduit to the cotton towns - is it so unfeasible he just paints a broad brush of Manchester?

Also on the note of weather I don’t recall he said he only stayed for one day and could have been in the area of Manchester in various towns visiting various spots over numerous days. I don’t believe in the diary he indicated this was a day trip.

Its all in the eye of the reader and how they interpret the words on the page I guess.

Regards,

Erobitha

[erobitha]

Replying to wrong post.

Whoops - thanks - corrected

[Yabs]

Well the Jepson’s Clough murder location of Jane Hodgson is definitely a step up from Millers Court, Bucks row etc.... wow!

[Iconoclast]

Whoops - thanks - corrected

Hi Erobitha,

Sorry, mate, I've confused you - it was I who replied to the wrong post .

Still, it is of course possible that - by chance - you were indeed also replying to the wrong post?

Now, what would the odds of that happening purely by chance be, I wonder?

Cheers,

Ike

[Iconoclast]

Well the Jepson’s Clough murder location of Jane Hodgson is definitely a step up from Millers Court, Bucks row etc.... wow!

Time out from the cut and thrust. That is stunning.

Ike

[Iconoclast]

Just thinking about Bongo's Affy David again and some of the comments which have passed for insight recently on this, The Greatest Thread of All, a scene unfolded before me (and I haven't even had a drink yet):

GOLDIE STREET – EVENING – ROUGHLY AROUND ABOUT JANUARY, FEBRUARY,1990

MIKE BARRETT IS AT THE WORD PROCESSOR. HIS FINGERS GLIDE EXPERTLY OVER THE KEYBOARD.

ANNE BARRETT SITS QUIETLY READING HER BOOK ON ‘MULTI PERSONALITY DISORDERS MADE EASY’
WHILST PRACTICING DISGUISING HER HANDWRITING.

UPSTAIRS CAN BE HEARD THEIR EIGHT YEAR OLD DAUGHTER PLAYING THE BUGLE.

MIKE: “Bloody racket.”

ANNE: (As ‘The Queen of Hearts’) “Off with her head!”

MORE EXPERT GLIDING OVER THE KEYBOARD. NO OTHER SOUNDS ARE HEARD BAR THE OCCASIONAL ROARS FROM NEARBY ANFIELD AS THE KOP CELEBRATE ANOTHER GOAL IN THE MARCH TO THEIR LATEST CHAMPIONSHIP AND - UNBEKNOWNST TO THEM - THE START OF A TERRIBLE 'THIRTY YEARS OF HURT' DURING WHICH THEY WILL ONLY WIN SEVENTEEN MAJOR HONOURS.

MIKE: “Finished it girl. I’ve written a best seller. We can’t fail. Five hundred thousand words of pure genius and that’s the God’s Honest Truth! I’ve looked closely at the background of James Maybrick and read everything to do with Jack the Ripper. Maybrick is an ideal candidate for ‘Jack the Ripper’ and most important of all he can’t defend himself. He wasn’t ‘Jack the Ripper’ of that I’m certain but times, places, visits to London and all that fits in. It’s so easy.

ANNE: (Back as herself, momentarily) “Wouldn’t it be better to rely on the ‘Rorschach Effect’"?

MIKE: “Good thinking girl. I’ll find somewhere to fit that in as well.”

ANNE: “No Michael. I mean keep it vague and let others fill in the blanks. Just use Ryan’s book and Donald Rumbelow’s book. Maybe one other.

MIKE: “Good thinking girl. I’ll start again.”

Ike