One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi
Well that first affidavit is written in such detail and with so much background content that in my opinion the only person who could have drawn up that affidavit was the person who did what is actually written in he affidavit.

If it wasn't Barrett and he didn't do any of that then things he said he did in the affidavit we must ask who did?

And who was going to have all the monies from the press and media which was being thrown in Barrett's direction.

HAve you read Ripper Diary yet? If not , I suggest you do. It will answer a lot of your questions

best wishes
Jenni

[caz]

Three little maids

I never said 'Feldman'. Never gave him a thought.

Maybe you should have done. Feldman was the originator of the spurious claim that the diary contains traces of the 'eight little whores' poem, presumed to be a 1950s McCormick invention.

Believe it or not, counting rhymes were around a long time before McCormick could have begun making up his own.

My advice is to read the diary for yourself, and not simply rely on what Feldy believed about the text. That doesn't do a lot for one's credibility.

Love,

Caz
X

[pinkmoon]

People keep missing the point about diary it should never have been published in first place untill it could be explained where it came from ......it's like presenting a murder weapon to a jury and saying can't tell you where we found this .....just wouldn't happen

[Trevor Marriott]

HAve you read Ripper Diary yet? If not , I suggest you do. It will answer a lot of your questions

best wishes
Jenni

I would prefer those questions be answered on here by those who know the answers.

[Chris]

Fine. Well, you just go down and have a really good night's sleep then. I'm hoping to get a couple of hours later on myself. I'll be up in time to serve you your breakfast in bed. If you could remember to sleep with your mouth open, you won't even have to wake up. I'll just drop in small pieces of lightly buttered kipper when you're breathing in the right direction, if THAT doesn't put you out.

[Jenni Shelden]

I would prefer those questions be answered on here by those who know the answers.

You mean you dont want to do even the most basic of research. You want to rely totally on other people's opinions?

I should think they have got better things to do when they have written a book that answers your questions. As for those who know, Michael Barrett and his ex wife don't post on here last time I checked, nor does Shirley Harrison, nor does Robert Smith or Keith Skinner, last time I checked Paul Feldman, Tony D, Melvin Harris and the Johnson brothers had passed on. I dont recall seeing Michael Barrett's solicitors posting on here.

I guess you mean Caz, but I would give her the respect of reading her book first, if you want her to spoonfeed you information for whatever crazy nonesense you are lining up.

I expect as an ex Police Officer you are able to read information and analyse it

Jenni

[Trevor Marriott]

You mean you dont want to do even the most basic of research. You want to rely totally on other people's opinions?

I should think they have got better things to do when they have written a book that answers your questions. As for those who know, Michael Barrett and his ex wife don't post on here last time I checked, nor does Shirley Harrison, nor does Robert Smith or Keith Skinner, last time I checked Paul Feldman, Tony D, Melvin Harris and the Johnson brothers had passed on. I dont recall seeing Michael Barrett's solicitors posting on here.

I guess you mean Caz, but I would give her the respect of reading her book first, if you want her to spoonfeed you information for whatever crazy nonesense you are lining up.

I expect as an ex Police Officer you are able to read information and analyse it

Jenni

Well I expected some sarcastic replies from some and I wasn't dissapointed

I could read every book ever written on the topic and still be no nearer the real truth so I think I will save my hard earnt pennies and my valuable time

As to opinions if you had a pound for every opinion in ripperology you would be a wealthy person

Besides opinions count for nothing and are misleading and are not evidence take Abberline and chapman,Littlechild and tumblety,not to mention tbose who give opinions suggesting the real truth about the ripper was to be found in files that were lost stolen or destroyed

Have a nice day

[Graham]

People keep missing the point about diary it should never have been published in first place untill it could be explained where it came from ......it's like presenting a murder weapon to a jury and saying can't tell you where we found this .....just wouldn't happen

That is actually a very good point, PM. Chances are that as soon as the 'Diary' was seen, pound-note signs appeared in eyes..... But at least efforts were made to try and ensure that there wouldn't be a repeat of the Hitler Diaries fraud.

G

[pinkmoon]

That's right Graham I think the glint of gold eclipsed common sense for most involved I havnt got a problem with the diary I havnt got a problem with the watch I've got a problem with where have they been .......for an item so potentially important like the diary to be launched on the public and to be told the current owner got it from a man in the pub not good enough......can you imagine if Dan farson had launched the macnaughton memo onto us by saying I got it in a pub

[Graham]

That's right Graham I think the glint of gold eclipsed common sense for most involved I havnt got a problem with the diary I havnt got a problem with the watch I've got a problem with where have they been .......for an item so potentially important like the diary to be launched on the public and to be told the current owner got it from a man in the pub not good enough......can you imagine if Dan farson had launched the macnaughton memo onto us by saying I got it in a pub

I agree! Barrett's story that he got it from Devereux, who sadly died shortly afterwards and was beyond questioning, is thin. Devereux's daughters strongly denied that their father ever had the 'Diary', and also implied that he and 'Bongo' Barrett weren't on the best of terms so it is unlikely that Devereux would give Barrett anything. Anne Barrett's story that the 'Diary' had been in her family for years and that she gave it to Devereux to pass on to Barrett sounded plausible at one time, but I'm not so sure now. Although Feldman was convinced, I don't think a link between Anne's father Billy Graham and Florence (Graham) Maybrick has ever been proven. But somehow the 'Diary' got to Barrett. Keith Skinner says he has conclusive proof that the 'Diary' came out of Battlecrease House. Mr Dodds, the owner of Battlecrease, was having work carried out on his property - electrical re-wiring, apparently, which would one supposes entail the lifting of floorboards, removal of panelling, and so forth. It would also one supposes entail the removal from the house of old electrical cable, which may or may not have had some scrap value. Now, Mike Barrett was a scrap-metal dealer at one time, and doubtless knew a lot of Liverpool people connected with that trade. I don't like speculation or wild guesses (but the story of the 'Diary' is laced with these and one more won't hurt), but could it be that Barrett or a mate of his had an eye on the old cable, and somehow spotted the 'Diary' when it was discovered during the electrical work on the house? Paul Feldman in his book relates an episode in which he met a couple of the men who carried out the work at Battlecrease, and that they claimed they found the book and took it to someone at Liverpool University for examination. I further recall (still don't have my books here) that Feldman did actually receive confirmation from the University that they had examined a manuscript which reached them as the workmen described, but no further information was forthcoming and that trail went cold. It puzzled me that Feldman didn't continue to pursue this 'lead' with his usual dynamic vigour.

I do hope that Keith Skinner very soon feels free to tell us what his proof of the 'Diary's Battlecrease provenance actually is.

I've got another 'theory', but I'll keep that to myself for the time being!

Graham

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi Trevor,
if you want me to be sarcastic, I can be, but that wasn't it.

Other than that what is your point?

You said you wanted to know what others on here thought, I dont know who you meant, hence you had not read the book. I am not suggesting you read every book on JtR, I'm not even suggesting you read every book on Maybrick, I'm not even suggesting you read every diary book.

I was trying to be helpful pointing out a source that would - with its own sources - answer ytour questions.

I don't know why I bothered, diary world is bad enough as it is

Jenni

[caz]

Hi Caz,

I think we need your help here?

Why would Mike have needed such a diary?

Time to turn to Linder et al, I think ...

Gladiator

Hi Glad,

Only Mike knows why he ordered a diary that would have arrived too late and been totally unsuitable for the purpose of fooling even a backward earwig into thinking it had been written over a hundred years previously.

But then Mike is arguably the last person on the planet we should trust for a straight answer.

My guess is that he called Doreen, not really knowing what he had, or what he was getting himself into. We don't know what questions she asked, but I imagine she would have expressed interest but asked why he thought it could be genuine. He may have begun to worry that he had been tricked by the person he got it from, or been reluctant to trust a stranger with such a potentially valuable item. Either way it might have made sense to him to see how easy it would be to obtain a similar item and/or create a substitute.

Some hope. If the advert had produced something useful and Mike had tried to create a fake diary of his own out of it, or transcribe from the original to give Doreen, how long does anyone seriously think it would have taken the supplier to realise what he'd done with this rather unusual order when the headlines appeared?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Well, well, well, so the 'Diary' balloon just deflates as bluster and pomposity escapes with the tiniest pin stuck by Chris.

Er, I think you'll find Chris said that I provided your pin, Jonathan, back in 2007.

What this thread shows is that we are not allowed to believe, let alone say out aloud, that we think the 'Diary' is a modern hustle.

Not allowed? I wasn't aware that anyone had forbidden you from airing your views on the diary's origins.

But it is not allowed here by the 'Diary' die-hards and so we get Stage Two--how dare you, you despicable coward!

Though in the face of Chris' pin I see that you are shifting to Stage Three: forget Mike Barrett, move along, nothing to see here ...

My pin, Jonathan, from six years ago. And I was telling people to forget Mike Barrett, because of his zero credibility, many years before that. Shifting to your Stage Three, in 2013? My, but you don't half flatter yourself.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Or it's these sub-genre of ditties that inspired McCormick's bit of typical hoaxing which then ended up in the 'Diary'.

But it didn't end up in the diary. It was Paul Feldman who thought he saw shades of 'eight little whores' there and tried to make something of it, when he evidently didn't appreciate how commonplace such counting rhymes are/were.

It's a wee bit desperate when you have to hold Feldman up as an authority on the diary text to make your case for the hoaxer using McCormick as a source. You only have to read the damned thing for yourself to find that Feldy's fertile imagination was running away with him as usual.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

I believe the seller was the widow of the late Albert Johnson, who 'discovered' the watch. Time was when he turned down an offer from a Texas memorabilia collector of about $90000. Strange how the Watch has 'died', considering that it resisted even the most modern analytical techniques to disprove its suspected modern provenance. Personally, I believe that like the 'Diary' it's a fake, but an old fake. It is, incidentally, a ladies watch.

Graham

No Graham,

It is definitely, provably a gentleman's dress watch - not that it would make any difference either way.

Love,

Caz
X

PS I'm replying to posts as I come to them as I have missed the recent conversation and am trying desperately to catch up, so apologies if others have already addressed the stuff that I am addressing.