One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I understand what you mean Ike. You probably look back at the beginning of this thread and go, “What ever happened to that Tom guy?!”

Tom who? Ancient history Lombro. Tom hasn't posted in years, maybe he got bored and moved on to other things? Who knows...

[erobitha]

Bob Lee, the now deceased landlord of The Saddle Inn, on record twice that he said he never heard of Eddie Lyons. RJ might want to ask Chris Jones whether Eddie said he knew Bob Lee. Eddie gave an excellent description of Bob and his family, adding that Bob even had a nickname for him. Guess what it was? "Here comes Jack the Ripper now".

Collectively, then, you might all want to consider why Bob Lee would lie about knowing Eddie or why Eddie already knew so much about Bob. There is proof Eddie was living literally next door to The Saddle Inn at that time. Bob indeed confirmed he knew Mike, someone who was not actually an immediate local, unlike Eddie.

With Bob Lee now also departed, we will never know if he was the link between Eddie and Mike, but I am inclined to think Bob somehow connected the two men to each other. On the 9th March 1992, Mike did not need to have the diary in his possession, but at least be aware such a thing existed.

[Iconoclast]

With Bob Lee now also departed, we will never know if he was the link between Eddie and Mike, but I am inclined to think Bob somehow connected the two men to each other. On the 9th March 1992, Mike did not need to have the diary in his possession, but at least be aware such a thing existed.

There's some great stuff in here I didn't know, ero b, so many thanks for that.

You make an utterly intriguing point: did Bob Lee connect Eddie Lyons with the self-confessed 'writer' Mike Barrett who then proceeded to wangle the scrapbook away from Eddie by some means (cash, if you believe the rumour that it had been sold for £25 in a pub in Anfield)? Did Lee simply shout over to Mike, "Hey, Mike, come and have a chat with Eddie here - he's got something you might find interesting?", potentially neither of them (Lee and Lyons) having even spotted the signature at the end of the narrative?

[Lombro2]

Getting warmer, Lombro.

By root vegetables, I was thinking of parsnips and suchlike, but there is an edible plant connection.

Love,

Mrs Snips
X

Would it be that you grow edible plants from snips or snippings?

Love

Mr Snippet View Error

[rjpalmer]

Collectively, then, you might all want to consider why Bob Lee would lie about knowing Eddie.

Are you suggesting that Bob is another member of the "nest of fencers and receivers," along with Ron and Suzanne Murphy? The cabal is growing....

Consider the following simple concept.

Every customer at a pub only needs to remember the name of the one publican.

By contrast, every publican would need to remember the name of dozens (or many dozens) of customers, some of them quite sporadic visitors.

No great conspiracy is needed to understand this lopsided 'bromance.'

I'm confident that nearly every pub has a few blokes who stop in twice a year and yet think they own the joint, yet the bartender doesn't remember them in return.

I've known a few barmaids in my time. They tell me they just remember beers, not names. Here come Mr. Guiness again, followed by Mr. Bass. And here comes Tetley's with Miss Diet Coke and her good friend, Bud Light.

Maybe they should have asked Bob about the bloke who drank Black and Tans; it would have had a better chance of ringing a bell.

RP

[erobitha]

Are you suggesting that Bob is another member of the "nest of fencers and receivers," along with Ron and Suzanne Murphy? The cabal is growing....

Consider the following simple concept.

Every customer at a pub only needs to remember the name of the one publican.

By contrast, every publican would need to remember the name of dozens (or many dozens) of customers, some of them quite sporadic visitors.

No great conspiracy is needed to understand this lopsided 'bromance.'

I'm confident that nearly every pub has a few blokes who stop in twice a year and yet think they own the joint, yet the bartender doesn't remember them in return.

I've known a few barmaids in my time. They tell me they just remember beers, not names. Here come Mr. Guiness again, followed by Mr. Bass. And here comes Tetley's with Miss Diet Coke and her good friend, Bud Light.

Maybe they should have asked Bob about the bloke who drank Black and Tans; it would have had a better chance of ringing a bell.

RP

Or “here comes Jack the Ripper?” What drink is that exactly?

[rjpalmer]

Or “here comes Jack the Ripper?” What drink is that exactly?

Jack the Ripper Cocktail

2 1/2 oz of Crown Royal Canadian Whiskey
3/4 oz of Butterscotch Schnapps

Eddie loves 'em.

[Lombro2]

Jack the Ripper Cocktail

2 1/2 oz of Crown Royal Canadian Whiskey
3/4 oz of Butterscotch Schnapps

Eddie loves 'em.

Don’t forget to add a nice hand-picked maraschino cherry!

[rjpalmer]

Don’t forget to add a nice hand-picked maraschino cherry!

The skeptics drink their drinks straight-up, Markus, with no frills. I'll leave the cherries for others.

And before you ask, I'm only using Ike's method of 'Argument-by-Tongue-in-Cheek Misinformation'--I don't really know what Eddie drank, if anything.

More seriously, don't y'all think the chronology here is highly relevant?

I know Harrison interviewed Bob Lee before she wrote the 'Blake' edition because she names him by name. I think Feldman spoke to him, too, but Feldman (if I recall) didn't identify him beyond the daytime publican.

When was Lee interviewed? What exactly did he say? If Eddie was truly mocked as 'Jack the Ripper,' isn't it likely to have developed long after the unfounded accusations were leveled against him and became the fodder for jokes? Stealing from customers is no joke.

Or is Jay seriously suggesting that Bob knew Eddie stole and subsequently sold the Diary of Jack the Ripper to Mike for twenty quid (hence the nickname) but for some reason withheld this information from Harrison and Feldman?

Do you find that credible?

Or maybe don't answer. If I recall, you theorized that Portus and Rhodes was a cabal of electrician/thieves who used the Saddle to fence their goods.

It sounds like you imagine Liverpool as some unrelenting blight of criminality--the same way Conservatives in the US think of Seattle as one enormous never-ending riot of Molotov cocktail throwing Leftist guerillas who only occasionally pause to sip lattes at Starbucks.

[Lombro2]

Geo-racial profiling? Sounds good to me.

You actually have a point there, Roger, if I may point it out. There’s usually “honour” amongst thieves and I don’t think it includes NOT ratting or “splitting” on a serial killer who kills women.

Portus and Rhodes obviously co-operated and didn’t try to aid and abet Jack the Ripper, be it Eddie or the real one. I don’t think the other parties would particularly care one way or the other but people like Eddie and Anne probably wonder why you’d need them to prove something like this is real or a forgery.

Tom who? Ancient history Lombro. Tom hasn't posted in years, maybe he got bored and moved on to other things? Who knows...

To bad. Ike could really use someone as sharp as Tom.

[erobitha]

The skeptics drink their drinks straight-up, Markus, with no frills. I'll leave the cherries for others.

And before you ask, I'm only using Ike's method of 'Argument-by-Tongue-in-Cheek Misinformation'--I don't really know what Eddie drank, if anything.

More seriously, don't y'all think the chronology here is highly relevant?

I know Harrison interviewed Bob Lee before she wrote the 'Blake' edition because she names him by name. I think Feldman spoke to him, too, but Feldman (if I recall) didn't identify him beyond the daytime publican.

When was Lee interviewed? What exactly did he say? If Eddie was truly mocked as 'Jack the Ripper,' isn't it likely to have developed long after the unfounded accusations were leveled against him and became the fodder for jokes? Stealing from customers is no joke.

Or is Jay seriously suggesting that Bob knew Eddie stole and subsequently sold the Diary of Jack the Ripper to Mike for twenty quid (hence the nickname) but for some reason withheld this information from Harrison and Feldman?

Do you find that credible?

Or maybe don't answer. If I recall, you theorized that Portus and Rhodes was a cabal of electrician/thieves who used the Saddle to fence their goods.

It sounds like you imagine Liverpool as some unrelenting blight of criminality--the same way Conservatives in the US think of Seattle as one enormous never-ending riot of Molotov cocktail throwing Leftist guerillas who only occasionally pause to sip lattes at Starbucks.

Your world is rather fascinating RJ. In it the local pub landlord who has had the pub for donkeys years and whose family still own and run it, could feasibly be completely unaware of Eddie Lyons, a very local man whose family were local for many years, did know of Eddie until much later after the diary bandwagon had left town?

He would not know this Kirkdale born and bred local who lived a mere hop and skip away from the premises of the pub? A man who admitted he had often been in The Saddle. Bob Lee wouldn’t have even known him through the jungle grapevine? A man who even went to school next door to the pub? He only become aware of Eddie post diary did he?

Yet, he knew all about Mike. A man who lived well over a mile away who came in for a pint (however long that took) before collecting his daughter from school.

Eddie moved away from the area before Bob died. So, Bob knew him well enough to call him Jack the Ripper after the book came out but not before. It is impossible apparently.

I don’t know if Bob was complicit in the introduction of the two men, but it could explain how Mike got Eddie’s address when he went to see him. Quite feasibly, it could have also been the first time Eddie and Mike actually met. Hence the “so your’e the famous Eddie Lyons who found my diary”.

That could more than adequately explain the how. The why, well that’s a whole other post.

[rjpalmer]

Yet, he knew all about Mike. A man who lived well over a mile away who came in for a pint (however long that took) before collecting his daughter from school.

And you're baffled by this? This is somehow suspicious?

Let me ask. When do you think Mr. Lee would have been interviewed about Mike Barrett? When Mike was still an obscure bloke who popped in for a pint in 1991?

Not likely, is it?

Did you happen see the segment on the Maybrick Diary that appeared on the news show 60 Minutes? Probably not, so let me describe it. In one segment, the CBS team literally had their American camera crew set-up inside Bob Lee's pub, filming Barrett buying a pint of ale, and then swallowing a healthy mouthful as he swaggered across the room. For a year or two, Barrett was The Saddle's most famous (or infamous) patron. According to Shirley Harrison, when Barrett received his first royalty check, he returned to The Saddle and waved it in the air, announcing he was well on the way to fame and fortune (or some such phrase).

Of course, when later interviewed by the diary crowd, Bob Lee would have known who Barrett was. Why wouldn't he have?

By contrast, a publican is supposed to know the names of everyone living in the immediate neighborhood and who attended the local schools? Why would he?

And sadly, I suspect that this will be one of those increasingly frequent moments when we are supposed to draw the same conclusions that you are drawing, but without, of course, having access to any of the interviews, or even the context or date of the interview, etc., and will be told, if asked, that they are confidential and off-limits, and the 'rights' belong to someone else, and await a future publication...

If so, that's fine, but it also means there is little point in discussing it.

Currently, I'm not seeing anything worthy of either suspicion or further commentary.

Sorry.

[erobitha]

And you're baffled by this? This is somehow suspicious?

Let me ask. When do you think Mr. Lee would have been interviewed about Mike Barrett? When Mike was still an obscure bloke who popped in for a pint in 1991?

Not likely, is it?

Did you happen see the segment on the Maybrick Diary that appeared on the news show 60 Minutes? Probably not, so let me describe it. In one segment, the CBS team literally had their American camera crew set-up inside Bob Lee's pub, filming Barrett buying a pint of ale, and then swallowing a healthy mouthful as he swaggered across the room. For a year or two, Barrett was The Saddle's most famous (or infamous) patron. According to Shirley Harrison, when Barrett received his first royalty check, he returned to The Saddle and waved it in the air, announcing he was well on the way to fame and fortune (or some such phrase).

Of course, when later interviewed by the diary crowd, Bob Lee would have known who Barrett was. Why wouldn't he have?

By contrast, a publican is supposed to know the names of everyone living in the immediate neighborhood and who attended the local schools? Why would he?

And sadly, I suspect that this will be one of those increasingly frequent moments when we are supposed to draw the same conclusions that you are drawing, but without, of course, having access to any of the interviews, or even the context or date of the interview, etc., and will be told, if asked, that they are confidential and off-limits, and the 'rights' belong to someone else, and await a future publication...

If so, that's fine, but it also means there is little point in discussing it.

Currently, I'm not seeing anything worthy of either suspicion or further commentary.

Sorry.

Oh dear RJ. You are mistaken regarding 60 minutes. Bob Lee refused the CBS crew to film inside. I believe that filming was done in a different pub nearby. You might want to check your sources on that old chum.

Of course he knew Mike. Mike was a talker and a drinker. Your viewpoint was stating he might only know Eddie by what he drank. My point is he definitely knew Eddie and in my view he lied about it.

You are right on one thing, the research material is not mine to share, but it is there. The discovery of Bob’s misleading responses are my own conclusions from what I have reviewed. I guess I’m not as qualified as you or Orsam to draw any conclusions from the material?

I can see why Keith and others are reluctant to share research with you.

By the way, you might want to pass on this piece of information to the man who cannot be named. Eddie Lyons himself admitted Mike visited him and threatened him with solicitors without being able to explain as to how Mike was able to find him.

[rjpalmer]

Oh dear RJ. You are mistaken regarding 60 minutes. Bob Lee refused the CBS crew to film inside. I believe that filming was done in a different pub nearby. You might want to check your sources on that old chum.

That's not how I remember it, but I haven't seen the segment in over 20 years. So you're saying that Barrett was drinking in another one of the local pubs that Tom Mitchell recently suggested there is no evidence of him having frequented?

If that's the case, it doesn't particularly matter and the point is the same; that Bob knew and remembered his most infamous patron but failing to recognize the name of Eddie Lyons is commonplace. That you feel this is somehow evidence that he was a liar who misled Feldman and Harrison and thwarted their investigation is a..how shall I put it?... a most fanciful conclusion.

[erobitha]

That's not how I remember it, but I haven't seen the segment in over 20 years. So you're saying that Barrett was drinking in another one of the local pubs that Tom Mitchell recently suggested there is no evidence of him having frequented?

If that's the case, it doesn't particularly matter and the point is the same; that Bob knew and remembered his most infamous patron but failing to recognize the name of Eddie Lyons is commonplace. That you feel this is somehow evidence that he was a liar who misled Feldman and Harrison and thwarted their investigation is a..how shall I put it?... a most fanciful conclusion.

I forgot to add, I can be so forgetful. Bob Lee’s daughter confirmed that her dad did know Eddie.