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One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

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  • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

    Let me respond this way.

    The well-known Ripper historian Keith Skinner is far more impressed by the Maybrick Diary than I am, yet we've been recently informed by both Ike and Caz that his preferred suspect is not Maybrick, but M. J. Druitt.

    Why might that be? Judging by your comments, you find this strange and irrational. Perhaps he can set your mind at ease.

    I can only answer for myself: Druitt is not my preferred suspect, but he was named by a Chief Constable at Scotland Yard as early as 1894, so it would be foolhardy not to be interested in the reasoning behind those suspicions.

    And is Maybrick even a suspect? Or is he merely the subject of a questioned document that first surfaced in 1992?

    Anyway, I notice that you didn't answer the question I posed.

    Ike implied that Anne Graham, or whoever our modern hoaxer might be, must have been extremely lucky to have chosen Jim Maybrick as her proposed Ripper, since he has a now confirmed association to Lime Street, London -- a mere 0.3 miles from Mitre Square.

    But was this lucky?

    Or was it extremely unlucky--considering that 'Maybrick' of the diary is oblivious to this, and makes the clumsy mistake of familiarizing himself with the area in 1888?

    The way I look at it, luck for the hoaxer would have been having Maybrick reacquainting himself with the streets around Mitre Square ("I have again walked the streets, and have refamiliarized myself..."). Or alternatively, the hoaxer could have had Maybrick flooded with the same waves of nostalgia that Ike exhibits as he describes his old haunts in Edinburgh.

    'Ah, to once again hoist a pint in the paneled rooms of the Three Nuns!' or 'How strange to walk again the shadowy gloom of Mitre Square as I had done twenty years ago' etc. etc.

    Yet, not so oddly, we get none of that--almost as if the hoaxer is entirely unaware of this connection.
    I have no idea why the well-known Ripper historian Keith Skinner may prefer Druitt. However, as you well know, he is someone I admire and respect and perhaps one day I might get to debate that with him.

    He doesn't use these boards, but you do. If you think Druitt is a more valid suspect than Maybrick because a policeman who wasn't actually involved in the investigation at the time, named three suspects whilst under pressure from the press, is good enough to make him a viable candidate, then good for you. Even more power to you after the Dorset cricket game pretty much made him one of the more unlikely suspects.

    Not everyone will use the absolute perfect grammar, tense, spelling or punctuation when writing in a document that was for their own primary benefit. As a point of note, Lime Street and the surrounding area went through a bit of facelift during the 1870s and 1880s. Leadenhall Market in particular. Perhaps familiar was unfamiliar? Did you consider that?
    https://peteroflimestreet.com/the-ci...e-street-ward/

    By the way, Ted Bundy was never a suspect until he was caught on a traffic violation.
    Last edited by erobitha; 06-03-2022, 07:02 PM.
    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
    JayHartley.com

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    • Is it imagined that every businessman with an office in the eastern part of the City of London was familiar with the back streets of Whitechapel and Spitalfields?

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      • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
        Is it imagined that every businessman with an office in the eastern part of the City of London was familiar with the back streets of Whitechapel and Spitalfields?
        They might if their partner / wife grew up in Whitechapel. Imagine how many of those there would have been.

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        Last edited by erobitha; 06-03-2022, 08:50 PM.
        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
        JayHartley.com

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        • In what sense was Postern Row in Whitechapel? Sanitary district, perhaps? It was in the Precinct of the Tower immediately north of the Tower of London.


          Last edited by MrBarnett; 06-03-2022, 09:39 PM.

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          • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
            In what sense was Postern Row in Whitechapel? Sanitary district, perhaps? It was in the Precinct of the Tower immediately north of the Tower of London.

            Tower Hill Road replaced Postern Row in the 1880s. It is less than 1 mile from the centre of Whitechapel.

            Mary Jane Kelly apparently met 'Johnto' who was most likely a soldier based at the Tower of London, and we are told by many of the experts on here the Tower was on the doorstep of Whitechapel, and yet here we are trying to claim it's not even close.
            Last edited by erobitha; 06-03-2022, 09:49 PM.
            Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
            JayHartley.com

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            • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

              Tower Hill Road replaced Postern Row in the 1880s. It is less than 1 mile from the centre of Whitechapel.
              It’s just called Tower Hill.

              I see Sarah Ann was aged 13 at the time. Do you imagine she somehow acquired a familiarity with the back streets of the Spitalfields rookery that she was able to pass on to her husband?








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              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                It’s just called Tower Hill.

                I see Sarah Ann was aged 13 at the time. Do you imagine she somehow acquired a familiarity with the back streets of the Spitalfields rookery that she was able to pass on to her husband?







                In 1861 she was living on Fenchurch street, her place of work, again less than a mile from Whitechapel.

                1871 she is at 55 Bromley Street, this time the borough of Stepney. This time the other side of Whitechapel and less than a mile away.

                It must be totally inconceivable and beyond the realms of imagination that perhaps James was exposed to the streets of Whitechapel because of his relationship with Sarah Ann Robertson.
                Last edited by erobitha; 06-03-2022, 10:01 PM.
                Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                JayHartley.com

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                • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                  Tower Hill Road replaced Postern Row in the 1880s. It is less than 1 mile from the centre of Whitechapel.

                  Mary Jane Kelly apparently met 'Johnto' who was most likely a soldier based at the Tower of London, and we are told by many of the experts on here the Tower was on the doorstep of Whitechapel, and yet here we are trying to claim it's not even close.
                  If MJK met ‘Johnto’ while he was stationed at the Tower, the meeting would almost certainly have taken place somewhere in the Ratcliff Highway.

                  No one is saying that Postern Row wasn’t close to Whitechapel geographically. But then neither was the Bank of England or the Mansion House. Slummers aside, I doubt very many City gents would have ventured anywhere near Spitalfields.

                  I believe Sarah Robertson was living in Fenchurch Street in 1861, is that right? I’m assuming we know where she was in between the two census dates, because claiming that someone about whom we know nothing more than that she was living in Tower Hill in 1851 and in Fencurch Street in 1861 was ‘brought up in Whitechapel’ would be beyond misleading.

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                  • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                    If MJK met ‘Johnto’ while he was stationed at the Tower, the meeting would almost certainly have taken place somewhere in the Ratcliff Highway.

                    No one is saying that Postern Row wasn’t close to Whitechapel geographically. But then neither was the Bank of England or the Mansion House. Slummers aside, I doubt very many City gents would have ventured anywhere near Spitalfields.

                    I believe Sarah Robertson was living in Fenchurch Street in 1861, is that right? I’m assuming we know where she was in between the two census dates, because claiming that someone about whom we know nothing more than that she was living in Tower Hill in 1851 and in Fencurch Street in 1861 was ‘brought up in Whitechapel’ would be beyond misleading.

                    Yes, they are wildly different geographical places.
                    Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                    JayHartley.com

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                    • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                      In 1861 she was living on Fenchurch street, her place of work, again less than a mile from Whitechapel.

                      1871 she is at 55 Bromley Street, this time the borough of Stepney. This time the other side of Whitechapel and less than a mile away.

                      It must be totally inconceivable and beyond the realms of imagination that perhaps James was exposed to the streets of Whitechapel because of his relationship with Sarah Ann Robertson.
                      Our posts crossed. No, it isn’t beyond our imagination, but it seems unlikely.

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                      • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                        Our posts crossed. No, it isn’t beyond our imagination, but it seems unlikely.
                        In your opinion. We are all entitled to those.
                        Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                        JayHartley.com

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                        • Originally posted by erobitha View Post


                          Yes, they are wildly different geographical places.
                          Do I detect a trace of irony?

                          The difference would have been sociological rather than geographical. I doubt there was an upmarket area of London that didn’t have a slum within a mile radius.

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                          • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                            In your opinion. We are all entitled to those.
                            And your opinion is that City gentleman whose wives had once lived in Fenchurch Street are likely to have been familiar with Dorset Street, Hanbury Street, Bucks Row and Berners Street?

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                            • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                              And your opinion is that City gentleman whose wives had once lived in Fenchurch Street are likely to have been familiar with Dorset Street, Hanbury Street, Bucks Row and Berners Street?
                              Again, why is that such a wild idea? Also, who said deep knowledge of the streets was actually required? Those murder sites were not hand-picked by Jack. They were more than likely selected by the victims to engage in the act of 'the business'. He didn't need a deep knowledge of side alleys and backstreets. He just needed to know enough to find his way back to his bolt hole.

                              He only ever needed a general idea of the vicinity and he got that......in my opinion.
                              Author of 'Jack the Ripper: Threads' out now on Amazon > UK | USA | CA | AUS
                              JayHartley.com

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                              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                                Our posts crossed. No, it isn’t beyond our imagination, but it seems unlikely.
                                I did notice that Sarah Robertson had an aunt and uncle living just around the corner from Batty Street, St. George in the East, in 1851, but I couldn't find them there in the 1860s, so this was evidently a decade before Mudbrick had met her.

                                Feldman's theory is that Mudbrick would have journeyed through the East End in the 1860s and 70s, to visit in "in-laws" when they were in Mile-End and on Bromley Street, thus making him familiar with the...er...main arteries.

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