One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[Iconoclast]

You have a rather bad habit of twisting what is said or written into some strange interpretation of your own and then critiquing it.

A skill employed on all sides of this fence, I suggest, RJ.

[rjpalmer]

A skill employed on all sides of this fence, I suggest, RJ.

Ike - I have no emotional attachment to my conviction that the diary is a modern hoax that originated in Goldie Street—it’s just where cold, hard reasoning has led me.

Now, if you could give me one incontrovertible, unequivocal, and undeniable fact that proves this cannot be true, I am more than willing to change my mind.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Dr Brown said the act of mutilation would have taken at least five minutes,

This is correct by dr brown .




But Don Rumblelow said this part .So im going with dr brown

Of course, if the removal of the kidney was not a deliberate act but simply a chance occurrence, the theories become idle speculation.




I think knight sums it up pretty spot on tho .



Why ,with such a limited amount of time would the killer go for the kidney if it wasnt his intention?. knowing how difficult it would be to remove , only someone with skill and knowledge would attempt it in near darkesss and very ,very little time . More importantly....... The killer left with the kidney .

So in summing up, its not 100% absolute proof [rarely if anything is regarding JtR] he intended to take the kidney . But this makes a damm good case for it . Thus all along as ive said, suspects like Druitt , Maybrick ,Lechmere ,Hutchinson are for me not even in the starting blocks for being JrR .

A minor point, and I’m not going to get drawn into a debate, but which of the 4 that you’ve named would have been likeliest to have gained anatomical knowledge? I’m not saying ‘had proven anatomical knowledge’ I’m saying ‘which one, due to his personal circumstances, might easily have gained anatomical (and even some medical) knowledge?)

[FISHY1118]

A minor point, and I’m not going to get drawn into a debate, but which of the 4 that you’ve named would have been likeliest to have gained anatomical knowledge? I’m not saying ‘had proven anatomical knowledge’ I’m saying ‘which one, due to his personal circumstances, might easily have gained anatomical (and even some medical) knowledge?)

Maybrick , Druitt, possibly Hutchinson, unlikely Lechmere.

[Iconoclast]

Ike - I have no emotional attachment to my conviction that the diary is a modern hoax that originated in Goldie Street—it’s just where cold, hard reasoning has led me.

Now, if you could give me one incontrovertible, unequivocal, and undeniable fact that proves this cannot be true, I am more than willing to change my mind.

Oh, I think cold, hard reasoning would more than suffice for that too, RJ.

[Iconoclast]

Maybrick , Druitt, possibly Hutchinson, unlikely Lechmere.

The thing with Maybrick - which, let's face it, is so common to Maybrick and few (if any) others - is that we can actually make a case for answering the question. In Maybrick's case, he grew up well within walking distance of the Liverpool Museum of Anatomy where he may have inadvertantly gained an understanding of the locations and appearance of the various human viscera.



I have no idea where Druitt would have gained such knowledge (but his high level of education and his employment as a teacher are the obvious routes), and Hutchinson and Lechmere can reasonably be excluded from any consideration of Jackdom if our primary measure is anatomical knowledge (if not urological expertise though I had understood that this was also a requirement!).

Ike

[MrBarnett]

Maybrick , Druitt, possibly Hutchinson, unlikely Lechmere.

Why Hutchinson ‘possibly’?

[MrBarnett]

The thing with Maybrick - which, let's face it, is so common to Maybrick and few (if any) others - is that we can actually make a case for answering the question. In Maybrick's case, he grew up well within walking distance of the Liverpool Museum of Anatomy where he may have inadvertantly gained an understanding of the locations and appearance of the various human viscera.



I have no idea where Druitt would have gained such knowledge (but his high level of education and his employment as a teacher are the obvious routes), and Hutchinson and Lechmere can reasonably be excluded from any consideration of Jackdom if our primary measure is anatomical knowledge (if not urological expertise though I had understood that this was also a requirement!).

Ike

Hi Ike,

Are you claiming, then, that Hutchinson and Lechmere would not have had access to anatomical museums?

And if it could be demonstrated to you that they had, would you acknowledge that they too ‘may have inadvertantly gained an understanding of the locations and appearance of the various human viscera’?

Gazza

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybrick , Druitt, possibly Hutchinson, unlikely Lechmere.

So you rate the likelihood of a Cotton Merchant and a man without full employment gaining anatomical knowledge equal to a man whose father was a surgeon and a Doctor and whose Uncle wrote the surgeons Bible and whose family home would have had a library of medical books?

[Herlock Sholmes]

The thing with Maybrick - which, let's face it, is so common to Maybrick and few (if any) others - is that we can actually make a case for answering the question. In Maybrick's case, he grew up well within walking distance of the Liverpool Museum of Anatomy where he may have inadvertantly gained an understanding of the locations and appearance of the various human viscera.



I have no idea where Druitt would have gained such knowledge (but his high level of education and his employment as a teacher are the obvious routes), and Hutchinson and Lechmere can reasonably be excluded from any consideration of Jackdom if our primary measure is anatomical knowledge (if not urological expertise though I had understood that this was also a requirement!).

Ike

His father was a surgeon and a Doctor, his Uncle wrote a book that was considered the surgeons Bible and his family home would have been full of medical books. It doesn’t come anywhere near making him the ripper of course but if we believe that the killer had medical knowledge it’s far easier to see how Druitt might have acquired it than other suspects (apart from Doctors of course)

[MrBarnett]

Equine anatomy lecturers for vets were given by Harrison, Barber - or at least at their premises. Of course, horses aren’t women, but I thought I’d mention it.

[FISHY1118]

Why Hutchinson ‘possibly’?

Possibly behind Maybrick and Druitt.

[FISHY1118]

So you rate the likelihood of a Cotton Merchant and a man without full employment gaining anatomical knowledge equal to a man whose father was a surgeon and a Doctor and whose Uncle wrote the surgeons Bible and whose family home would have had a library of medical books?

As far as having the Capacity to gain Anatomical Knowledge the same as Druitt , yes of course .

[MrBarnett]

As far as having the Capacity to gain Anatomical Knowledge the same as Druitt , yes of course .

But on what basis do you think Hutchinson more likely to have done so than Lechmere?

[Herlock Sholmes]

As far as having the Capacity to gain Anatomical Knowledge the same as Druitt , yes of course .

How could it be the same as Druitt? Maybrick had absolutely no connection to medicine or the medical profession. All that I’m saying is that if you wrote a tick box list, noting all the attributes that you ‘might’ apply to the ripper and one of them was ‘medical/anatomical knowledge’ then Druitt, Lechmere, Hutchinson, Sickert, Bury etc would all score zero because we have no evidence of any of them having such knowledge. Obviously the Doctors like Gull would get a tick.

But if we asked, who of the non-Medical men (who didn’t get a tick) would have been likeliest to have gained at least some medical/anatomical knowledge then Druitt just has to be placed above those others on the basis that his Father was a surgeon/Doctor, that his Uncle wrote a highly regarded Surgery textbook and that his family home would have been chock full of books on medicine. I’m not claiming that this strengthens Druitt as a suspect Fishy. And I’m certainly not saying that he did have anatomical knowledge, I’m just saying that he was likelier to have gained anatomical knowledge that Lechmere, Hutchinson, Sickert, Bury etc. Surely you can concede this minor and very obvious point?