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One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

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  • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

    I want to know who did pen it and why. It certainly wasn’t Bongo.
    Well, if it ever turns out that it was Bongo we're aal [sic] doomed - doomed!
    Iconoclast
    Materials: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Yabs View Post
      Hi Caz

      Sorry I should have written, from the Maybrick Case by MacDougall not Trial.

      I’m not sure of the page.
      I’ve converted McDougall to kindle from the archive so I can search by keyword, I quickly did it yesterday because I knew it mentioned the address as number 6 and it has come out with rather more glitches than when I converted it a year or so ago.

      I’ll try to do a clean conversion over the weekend.

      But here’s a screenshot of the pages if it helps for now . Click image for larger version Name:	4F6044D4-F260-47C5-823A-EF3EE28C9A8C.png Views:	0 Size:	53.8 KB ID:	780831O Click image for larger version Name:	48A0D705-B0CE-4C55-91E8-67D7592DB737.png Views:	0 Size:	56.3 KB ID:	780832

      Hi Caz.

      Considering Barrett’s error stating number 6 as the address of Battlecrease do you think we could say with some confidence that Barrett at some point very early on read MacDougall?
      I’ll be honest, like Barrett, up until I read your post I thought Battlecrease was number 6 too.
      Because I read MacDougall.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Yabs View Post


        Hi Caz.

        Considering Barrett’s error stating number 6 as the address of Battlecrease do you think we could say with some confidence that Barrett at some point very early on read MacDougall?
        I’ll be honest, like Barrett, up until I read your post I thought Battlecrease was number 6 too.
        Because I read MacDougall.
        Yabs,

        Barrett did not read MacDougall, I assure you. You are giving him far too much credit.

        I think he walked past No. 5 on his way down Riversdale Road, saw No.s 6 & 7, thought they were one property, assumed they were Battlecrease House, and therefore logically concluded that the property was No. 6 Riversdale Road.

        No more complicated than that.

        Cheers,

        Ike
        Iconoclast
        Materials: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

          Yabs,

          Barrett did not read MacDougall, I assure you. You are giving him far too much credit.

          I think he walked past No. 5 on his way down Riversdale Road, saw No.s 6 & 7, thought they were one property, assumed they were Battlecrease House, and therefore logically concluded that the property was No. 6 Riversdale Road.

          No more complicated than that.

          Cheers,

          Ike

          Hello Ike

          Yes I guess he could have done, as with all things diary related there will always be some ambiguity to throw in from either side.

          But in the context of us discussing Barrett’s research conducted by way of available text, then I would say MacDougall would be the source of this particular error.
          Last edited by Yabs; 02-04-2022, 06:47 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Yabs View Post


            Hello Ike

            Yes I guess he could have done, as with all things diary related there will always be some ambiguity to throw in from either side.

            But in the context of us discussing Barrett’s research conducted by way of available text, then I would say MacDougall would be the source of this particular error.
            It’s exactly the type of ‘strong’ evidence that Lord Orsam uses to argue that MB got all his Maybrick info from Ryan - warts and all. (Isn’t it?)

            Comment


            • The lord aside, think of it from my perspective…
              It’s just a strange coincidence that Caz should post regarding the house number of Battlecrease because I searched for Battlecrease on Google a few days before Caz posted.
              And from my search history that’s the number I was looking for.
              Because I read MacDougall.


              Click image for larger version  Name:	461B1C75-C6D9-4048-AB02-13161C174170.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	38.2 KB ID:	780882
              Last edited by Yabs; 02-04-2022, 07:43 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                It’s exactly the type of ‘strong’ evidence that Lord Orsam uses to argue that MB got all his Maybrick info from Ryan - warts and all. (Isn’t it?)

                I don't want to be involved in this circus at the moment, but as I just informed Yabs in a PM, the same house number is given in...wait for it...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs. Maybrick, Chapt. 4


                Click image for larger version

Name:	Bernard Ryan 6 Riversdale Road.JPG
Views:	1250
Size:	32.1 KB
ID:	780887

                Bernard Ryan...the gift that keeps giving!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post


                  I don't want to be involved in this circus at the moment, but as I just informed Yabs in a PM, the same house number is given in...wait for it...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs. Maybrick, Chapt. 4


                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Bernard Ryan 6 Riversdale Road.JPG
Views:	1250
Size:	32.1 KB
ID:	780887

                  Bernard Ryan...the gift that keeps giving!
                  I won the bet!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post


                    I don't want to be involved in this circus at the moment, but as I just informed Yabs in a PM, the same house number is given in...wait for it...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs. Maybrick, Chapt. 4


                    Click image for larger version  Name:	Bernard Ryan 6 Riversdale Road.JPG Views:	0 Size:	32.1 KB ID:	780887

                    Bernard Ryan...the gift that keeps giving!

                    Thanks RJ.

                    So Barrett had at least two sources for Battlecrease being number 6.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post


                      I don't want to be involved in this circus at the moment, but as I just informed Yabs in a PM, the same house number is given in...wait for it...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs. Maybrick, Chapt. 4


                      Click image for larger version

Name:	Bernard Ryan 6 Riversdale Road.JPG
Views:	1250
Size:	32.1 KB
ID:	780887

                      Bernard Ryan...the gift that keeps giving!
                      In the context of Barrett's research notes (to use Yabs' phrase), the obvious source of everything for Mike would be one book, and Lord O has probably shown that that book would be Ryan. There is not a cat in Hell's chance that Barrett used MacDougall as well (context here makes it sound like a sort of 50-50 shoot-out between Ryan and MacDougall when the reality is probably the No. 26 bus route and a short walk down Riversdale Road).

                      Ike
                      Iconoclast
                      Materials: HistoryvsMaybrick – Dropbox

                      Comment


                      • This may be a silly question…

                        Why do we imagine that Lord O of Stepney didn’t cut out the middle man and ‘prove’ that Ryan is the only possible source for the Maybrick element of the diary?
                        Last edited by MrBarnett; 02-05-2022, 11:46 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Yabs View Post
                          Hi Caz

                          Sorry I should have written, from the Maybrick Case by MacDougall not Trial.

                          I’m not sure of the page.
                          I’ve converted McDougall to kindle from the archive so I can search by keyword, I quickly did it yesterday because I knew it mentioned the address as number 6 and it has come out with rather more glitches than when I converted it a year or so ago.

                          I’ll try to do a clean conversion over the weekend.

                          But here’s a screenshot of the pages if it helps for now . Click image for larger version Name:	4F6044D4-F260-47C5-823A-EF3EE28C9A8C.png Views:	0 Size:	53.8 KB ID:	780831O Click image for larger version Name:	48A0D705-B0CE-4C55-91E8-67D7592DB737.png Views:	0 Size:	56.3 KB ID:	780832
                          Thanks very much, Yabs!

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

                            Well, if it ever turns out that it was Bongo we're aal [sic] doomed - doomed!
                            Did ye ever hear the storrry of the auld empty drrrainpipe, laddie?

                            Do ye want to hear the storrry of the auld empty drrrainpipe?

                            Well, there was nothing in it.

                            Love,

                            Caz
                            X
                            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Yabs View Post
                              Hello Ike

                              Yes I guess he could have done, as with all things diary related there will always be some ambiguity to throw in from either side.

                              But in the context of us discussing Barrett’s research conducted by way of available text, then I would say MacDougall would be the source of this particular error.
                              Until I know more, Yabs, I'm going with the assumption that anyone in the early 1990s, who had learned that Battlecrease House was on Riversdale Road but didn't have the street number, could have looked up at the large Victorian edifice as they walked down the road towards the River Mersey, noted No.6 on the front door to the right hand side, and taken that to be the address, unaware that the house had been divided at some point into two separate dwellings, with No.7 on the left hand side. I seem to recall when I was there, that the entrance to No.7 was up the side of the building, so it may not have been immediately obvious to anyone on the pavement that No.6 was not all the one house. In any case, the casual visitor would have had to know there was also a No.7, in order to identify which was the right house.

                              The only 'error' on Mike's part, in this case, may have been to walk away, not realising there were in fact two houses and he had identified the wrong one, until he went back there in early 1993 with Feldman and co and they saw Paul Dodd, who owned both houses.

                              If the original house had indeed been No.6 in 1889, which was the address Edwin Maybrick apparently gave Dr. Carter over the telephone [according to MacDougall], then there was no error, and Ryan presumably took the address from the same source?

                              As usual, it all tends to make sense when we look further into it, without the need to accuse Mike of creating the diary text using Ryan, and then getting the wrong address for Battlecrease in his research notes, because he stupidly used the same source.

                              The irony is that if Mike really had faked the diary, and had put No.6 as Maybrick's address in the diary, he might have got it right by accident!

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X


                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post


                                I don't want to be involved in this circus at the moment, but as I just informed Yabs in a PM, the same house number is given in...wait for it...Bernard Ryan's The Poisoned Life of Mrs. Maybrick, Chapt. 4


                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Bernard Ryan 6 Riversdale Road.JPG Views:	137 Size:	32.1 KB ID:	780887

                                Bernard Ryan...the gift that keeps giving!
                                For once, RJ is not wrong.

                                If Ryan had the right address for the undivided Battlecrease of 1889 [assuming No.7 did not yet exist as a separate address], while Mike got the wrong address in 1992 for where Maybrick had died [assuming he died in the part that had become No.7], and therefore inadvertently got the right address for Battlecrease as was [still with me at the back?], then I wonder how many more times he will manage to wriggle away from RJ and Orsam's clutches before they start to realise he was never in them?

                                Love,

                                Caz
                                X
                                Last edited by caz; 02-07-2022, 05:27 PM.
                                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                                Comment

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