One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[caz]

Afternoon All,

Thinking back to RJ Palmer's last post - or should I say his latest post - I'm intrigued to know how serious he was being, when he accused certain people of knowing the diary to be a modern fraud but pretending otherwise, for Christ knows what twisted reason he has in mind. We already knew RJ was a conspiracy theorist, believing that two or more named individuals were involved in faking the diary, and probably two more in faking the watch. But I wasn't really expecting him to go this far.

Is he going to back down and claim it was just his funny little joke, if I ask him to name the conspirators who are being accused of knowingly trying to cover up a criminal deception going back 30 years? Or will he pretend he wasn't accusing me, or Ike, or erobitha, or Keith Skinner, or any particular individual or group, but just airing a sincerely held belief that those who don't overtly agree with him, must secretly know he's right?

It's such a shame that the atmosphere took such a dark turn again with RJ's unpleasant accusation, so I do hope he will come back to clear the air.

When he does, perhaps he could comment on his admission that at least three modern hoax conspiracy theorists have listened to those conversations between Barrett & Gray: RJ Palmer himself; the mystery researcher who sent him the tapes; and the mystery person RJ sent them on to, who apparently cannot now be contacted.

What are we meant to conclude from their silence? That not one listener heard anything incriminating enough to take any further? Or did they come to realise, as Alan Gray eventually did, that Mike was just a wind-up merchant who knew bugger all about forging anything?

It has to be one or the other, doesn't it? What other explanation can there be, given that RJ is still around, unable to prove his suspicions against the Barretts, while accusing others of knowing their guilt and presumably keeping the proof to themselves?

Love,

Caz
X

[Iconoclast]

Word to the wise, Ike.

You might want to cast your eye over this thread to judge whether it's even worth engaging with certain posters on the subject of open minds and critical thinking:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/soc...o-change-minds

Love,

Switchypoo
X

Wow, Switchypoo, that was extremely enlightening.

Somewhat off topic for The Greatest Thread of All (so much so that I won't even try to contrive a link), but Mrs Iconoclast and I had our second AZ vaccinations at the height of the AZ blood clotting concerns, Mrs I. didn't want to take it at all (first or second jab) but recognised that it was much more than about her concerns and much more than about her personal 'liberty and independence'.

But then again we live in the UK where democracy really is democratic, where every single UK citizen and every single Eire citizen (under the Common Travel Agreement which has existed for 60+ years not just as a solution to The Troubles) gets free medical treatment at the point of need (though obviously some like me and my Scottish missus have to pay prescription charges because we no longer live in Scotland - don't even start me on young Izzy Iconoclast's university fees!), and every single non-domestic without exception receives free emergency medical treatment regardless of cost; indeed, where a baby can receive a £1.7million single-dose gene treatment (albeit on a negotiated discount but well done to the MHRA and Novartis for agreeing to it) at no cost whatsoever to the relieved parents.

The protection of the majority - correction, and the protection of the minority - has to have a direct bearing on what we naively imagine are our liberties and independence. If it didn't, we'd just scrap seatbelts, airbags, and speed limits.

Ikypoo

[Iconoclast]

What are we meant to conclude from their silence? That not one listener heard anything incriminating enough to take any further? Or did they come to realise, as Alan Gray eventually did, that Mike was just a wind-up merchant who knew bugger all about forging anything?

It is this which really corks me.

From what we are led to understand, Alan Gray was roundly shafted by Mike Barrett who dangled him promise after promise, never paid him, and left him looking quite the mug for ever having got involved with him.

And yet we are also to believe that those magical tapes of Mike at the confessional are so dangerous to the diary's case that they have had to be locked away by those conspiring to hide the truth of the hoax from the world.

If this were true, why did Gray not use what he knew to extract what he was owed via, say, newspaper articles or whatever?

The strong implication is that he learned nothing from Bongo other than how to be legally mugged.

Cheers,

Ike

[caz]

Meanwhile, the Barrett sceptics will continue to get the blame for not sharing the same evidence, which the Barrett believers had, but chose to send off into oblivion.

Only on this thread would anyone defend or turn a blind eye to such an illogical and indefensible position.

If it wasn't an act of self harm on the part of a modern hoax believer, to jettison evidence they knew could have exposed the Barretts as fraudsters, I'm not sure what else one would call it.

Running interference for fraud has already been done.

Love,

Caz
X

[Iconoclast]

Meanwhile, the Barrett sceptics will continue to get the blame for not sharing the same evidence, which the Barrett believers had, but chose to send off into oblivion.

Only on this thread would anyone defend or turn a blind eye to such an illogical and indefensible position.

If it wasn't an act of self harm on the part of a modern hoax believer, to jettison evidence they knew could have exposed the Barretts as fraudsters, I'm not sure what else one would call it.

Running interference for fraud has already been done.

Love,

Caz
X

Yes, Caz, to have possessed the evidence they now crave only to have handed it off as though it were worthless leaves you wondering why anyone would ever claim to seek it again.

Ike

[caz]

Intellectual dishonesty?

[The Baron]

Melvin Harris wrote:


"As for the Maybrick content, my examination shows that ALL the specific Diary material can be found easily in modern accounts. In fact all the material can be located in just one popular paperback, "THE POISONED LIFE OF MRS MAYBRICK" by Bernard Ryan, (Penguin paperback 1989). There you will find the family and business details and information about arsenic users. Yes, this one book proves that no expensive, time-consuming, research by the hoaxers was needed. All the Diary believers' claims were moonshine. The facts were there, to be had over the counter, for a mere £4.49 new, even less second-hand. Any extra, non-specific bits, were easily deduced from the realities of every-day living, both then and now"



Reading through the scrapbook, one can easily notice there is no depth there, no inside knowledge, no new details, especially about the crimes.


The lyric the hoaxer wrote after Kelly's murder, the climax of the serie, one finds only superficial common points:


-Red Handkerchief
-The Key
-Burning clothes for light

And will go to repeat them again and again.



The Baron

[Fiver]

In the Paul Feldman video in the late 1990s, Feldman notes that this could have been a reference to 'Juwes' being a cipher for 'James' (so "a Jew I shall be").

After the 'double event' in the scrapbook, the author writes "I wonder if they enjoyed my funny Jewish joke?" (again, or very similar).

Yes, that would leave the phrase being The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing, but I guess the assumption was that the rest of the text didn't matter as Maybrick's intention was simply to place his name in the text.

This bothered me hugely as it didn't make sense to place your name in the text and then have such a convoluted remainder. A few years ago, it occurred to me that the remainder might actually contain ciphers to other significant people in James' life. As sure as eggs is eggs, Thomas, William, Ed (possibly Edwin), FM, and MM came out of the GSG. A truly remarkable thing as no other names could be deciphered in this way. Naturally, the notion was ridiculed. Of course it would be ridiculed, we all knew Jack the Ripper intimately and this was not part of what we understood about him so it must of necessity be utterly wrong.

So you really do believe the GSG said "The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing". Wow. That makes no senses on any level.

And in addition to that you're trying to anagram the rest of it into names and initials.

Lets start by noting that if you take "James" out of "The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing", then you cannot anagram "Thomas"

Lets try your method with a list of the most popular period names.

The GSG, minus the "James" also has anagrams for William, Albert, Alfred, Robert, Walter, Herbert, Harold, Fred, Leonard. Edwin, Reginald, Tom, Edgar, Daniel, Wilfred,
Wilfrid, Norman, Bernard, Matthew, Andrew, Gilbert, Bertram, Owen, Abraham, Arnold, Lionel, Martin, Howard, Gerald, Rowland, Roland, Gordon, Ronald, Allan, Allen, Eli,
Alan, Ben, Nathan, Aaron, Nathaniel, Theodore, Morgan, Adam, Roger, Herman, Leo, Noah, Algernon, and Noel.

Which clearly illustrates your pareidolia. There is no evidence of any hidden ciphers in the GSG, let alone the Ripper giving his actual name.

[erobitha]

Melvin Harris wrote:


"As for the Maybrick content, my examination shows that ALL the specific Diary material can be found easily in modern accounts. In fact all the material can be located in just one popular paperback, "THE POISONED LIFE OF MRS MAYBRICK" by Bernard Ryan, (Penguin paperback 1989). There you will find the family and business details and information about arsenic users. Yes, this one book proves that no expensive, time-consuming, research by the hoaxers was needed. All the Diary believers' claims were moonshine. The facts were there, to be had over the counter, for a mere £4.49 new, even less second-hand. Any extra, non-specific bits, were easily deduced from the realities of every-day living, both then and now"



Reading through the scrapbook, one can easily notice there is no depth there, no inside knowledge, no new details, especially about the crimes.


The lyric the hoaxer wrote after Kelly's murder, the climax of the serie, one finds only superficial common points:


-Red Handkerchief
-The Key
-Burning clothes for light

And will go to repeat them again and again.



The Baron

Good old Melvin Harris.

I think I would have been entertained by his theatrical responses to all things Maybrick.

I will simply ponder two questions.

1) Did Melvin ever have any vested interest in ensuring the Maybrick Diary was deemed a 'shabby hoax' by the outside world? Was he simply just a bastion of 'truth'?
2) What happened when he tried to pay expert Stanley Dangar to replicate the scratches of the Maybrick watch? How did that whole relationship play out in the end?

Technically four questions (I know how anal cats can get, especially when licking their own ar*e). Just because one man has an opinion, does not mean he is right. I am aware it goes both ways.

The gospel according to Melvin does not make it true cat man.

[rjpalmer]

Intellectual dishonesty?

I'm not interested, Caz.

This is just your latest charade in a long series of pointless charades.

I have never hid the many reasons why I believe the diary is a modern fake--there are many of them and they can be readily found in the archives--and those reasons have nothing to do with the Barrett tapes, which are mainly useful for context.

Nor have I ever said there is 'secret' evidence is theses tapes. This is just another one of your strange inventions which you've now turned into your latest battle cry.

How sad. And how embarrassing.

Personally, I think you and Tom Mitchell should take a much needed mental break. Your posts, in particular, are becoming increasingly unhinged.

[Iconoclast]

So you really do believe the GSG said "The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing". Wow. That makes no senses on any level.

And in addition to that you're trying to anagram the rest of it into names and initials.

Lets start by noting that if you take "James" out of "The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing", then you cannot anagram "Thomas"

Lets try your method with a list of the most popular period names.

The GSG, minus the "James" also has anagrams for William, Albert, Alfred, Robert, Walter, Herbert, Harold, Fred, Leonard. Edwin, Reginald, Tom, Edgar, Daniel, Wilfred,
Wilfrid, Norman, Bernard, Matthew, Andrew, Gilbert, Bertram, Owen, Abraham, Arnold, Lionel, Martin, Howard, Gerald, Rowland, Roland, Gordon, Ronald, Allan, Allen, Eli,
Alan, Ben, Nathan, Aaron, Nathaniel, Theodore, Morgan, Adam, Roger, Herman, Leo, Noah, Algernon, and Noel.

Which clearly illustrates your pareidolia. There is no evidence of any hidden ciphers in the GSG, let alone the Ripper giving his actual name.

Wow! I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Why are you talking about anagrams? Who mentioned anagrams? I certainly didn't.

I think - and correct me if I'm wrong - but I think you have just decided to take all the letters in the GSG and reform them into names, yes? And if you use some letters in one name, you remove them from the available pile? And you keep doing that until you run out of letters?

Well, you're welcome to do that (looks like you already have) but what a monumental waste of your time.

You are not simply looking for letters scattered here, there, and everywhere to form names, that would be facile and obvious - you are looking for contiguous elements of the accepted version of the GSG, words appearing to say one thing but representing another thing entirely (hence, the fact that the GSG in its familiar form is semantically meaningless).

Greater clarity - if you need it - is in my brilliant Society's Pillar.

And - Lord I hope this is the last time I have to say this - no, I don't think the GSG was meant to read "The James are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing". I think it was meant to read - take a seat, have a cold drink, calm down - "The Juwes are the Men that Will Not be Blamed for nothing" but within that Maybrick had hidden the six significant adult names in his life (not in non-contiguous letters, note, nor in anagrams).

And of course it makes sense on the level of explaining why it said what it said. It may not have been why it was written, but it's a theory that stands up to the evidence. Wow, I know! (Take a seat again, have another cold drink, calm down.) If it was why it was written, it may have its limitations, but please don't blame me for the potential clumsiness of James Maybrick's ciphering skills, I wasn't there when he came up with this. I'm just the guy who solved the mystery of the meaningless writing on the jamb of Wentworth Dwellings after 130 years of wasted, misdirected analysis (which presumably Maybrick would have been delighted by had he but known)!

Contrary to your dogmatic position, there is in fact plenty of evidence of hidden ciphers in the GSG if James Maybrick were Jack the Ripper. You just didn't check your facts before you launched into your wasted anagram exercise.

[rjpalmer]

I never said it was from the Sid and Nancy murder you assumed that. It is from a different murder scene but people have used the image to link it to that crime. It is taken from a police forensics file in Philadelphia and the murder was not made public of who.

Over 48 hours and still no link, Erobitha?

I wonder why that is?

[erobitha]

Over 48 hours and still no link, Erobitha?

I wonder why that is?

Still no revelations from the tapes?

I wonder why that is?

[Iconoclast]

There is no evidence of any hidden ciphers in the GSG, let alone the Ripper giving his actual name.

I missed this corker the first time!

I'm assuming that you don't actually know who he was so how exactly do you know this to be true?

Unless, that is, you do know who he was and you're just not saying?

[erobitha]

Over 48 hours and still no link, Erobitha?

I wonder why that is?

I was wrong. You are happy now?

It was not from a forensics police file from PA.......but by a murder scene cleanup operations team based in NM.



Give them a call https://newmexico.networkofcare.org/...allup_1534_1_0