One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

[Soothsayer]

That ones beneath you Sooth.

No one has said there is an "M" there. There is an M-like shape on the photo. I've made it more that clear I don't believe there was an actual M on the wall, AND I've raised the same objection Ben has. If there were letters on the wall the police would surely have noticed that.

Unlike Ben I wasn't hear to hear your explination on that one previously. So I would be interested to know how you can reconcile the lack of comment on the "letters"?

And for what it's worth, if you think the F is apparent in all copies of the crime scene photos pop by sometime if you're in the states. We can go through the prints because I would love to see someone say they can see it with a straight face in the majority of the prints.

Beautiful, our posts are overlapping!

Always way ahead of you, John, it's time for my bed.

PS Flashbulbs?

PPS Are you seriously suggesting that the American versions are better than ours?

[John Hacker]

For speed, many of us in the human race has skipped the need to clarify that any shape may only resemble another familiar share by adding a hyphen and a 'like'. "While the M is" would have sufficed for those of most of us.

Having been in the thick of things in the diary discussion for years it's almost seemed prudent to qualify my statements so as not to end up quoted out of context.

Nevertheless, I am deeply encouraged that you acknowledge its presence (not for the first time, if I recall correctly, Constable Hacker).

Of course I don't. :-) I've made that more than clear.

This is the really interesting bit, officer - have you noticed that the 'M' in the photograph is exactly the same as that throughout the journal (distinctive by its rising second-half)? Spooky, huh?

There is little resemblence to the "diary" M which is far more spikey and much less curvy than whatever it is on the wall. Nor is the "diary" 100% consistent in this regard. And given 3 options (peaks equal, left peak higher, right peak higher) the odd are... what? One in a million that they would match?

No... that can't be right...

Ah well, I note that you seemed to miss a query I had...

Unlike Ben I wasn't hear to hear your explination on that one previously. So I would be interested to know how you can reconcile the lack of comment on the "letters"?

[Jessica Pisces]

A little ways down there's yet another of the poor rhymes ending in "Damn it, the tin box was empty".

I found this rhyme in the diary text on Wikisource but can't find where it says:
Tin Match Box Empty.
Can someone show me where "Tin Match Box Empty" is?

[John Hacker]

I found this rhyme in the diary text on Wikisource but can't find where it says:
Tin Match Box Empty.
Can someone show me where "Tin Match Box Empty" is?

I don't have it in front of me, but it's a paragraph or two up. (If you're looking at the reproduction it might be on the previous page. The last time I looked it was at the transcript.)

It's in a section with some crossed out lines.

[Jane Welland]

Mr Sayer et al. …

Apologies for not responding earlier -

Mr Sayer – or may I now call you Sooth? Simon & Garfunkel, eh? The Boxer to boot! Splendid! I know it well – it brought a little more to mind….

In the forum stands a boxer
And a fighter by his trade
And he carries the reminders
of every post that laid him down
or mocked him til he cried out
In his anger and his shame
I am leaving, I am leaving
But the fighter still remains

Li la li…

I may have paraphrased a little.

It does remind me of you, though, Sooth, and your indomitable spirit in the face of absurdity.

Never give in, Never surrender – as they say in Galaxy Quest.

Also, I wasn't sure what the last bit meant? Li la li? Any ideas?

Graham – Rousseau? Hmm. It’s entirely possible – however, I expect I got it from a song – couldn’t tell you which one. I absorb lyrics by osmosis.

John - I found your comment regarding the remotely possibly runic nature of the alleged ‘F’ on the wall of Mary Kelly’s room very interesting indeed. ‘What if’ I thought, ‘they really WERE runes?’ That would explain why the police couldn’t read them at the time! I had to take it a step further and found that – assuming the mythical ‘F’ does indeed resemble more closely a ‘P’, we might well end up with this:




This is wunjo – the rune for joy, and the equivalent in the latin alphabet for the letter ‘W’.

The magic really happens, however, when we add the corresponding rune in this argument:



This is ehwaz – the rune for horse, and the equivalent in the latin alphabet for the letter ‘E’.

Well! There are, clearly, two interpretations here – one that the letters on the wall (if real) are a clever code for ‘joy horse’ – which I for one, don’t understand.

Or

The letters indicate the word ‘WE’ – which of course may imply an accomplice in the room. What do you think? I accept I may not be on the right track here, but it’s an interesting theory, don’t you think?

Jane x

[Soothsayer]

Never give in, Never surrender – as they say in Galaxy Quest.

Or indeed (prize if you can name it without using Google)...

Now on the street tonight the lights grow dim
The walls of my room are closing in
There's a war outside still raging
You say it ain't ours anymore to win

It's always ours to win, Janey, after all ...

'Til every river runs dry
Until the sun honey's torn from the sky
'Til every fear you've felt burst free
And gone tumblin' down into the sea
Listen to me
Janey don't you lose heart
Janey don't you lose heart
Janey don't you lose heart
Janey don't you lose heart

What's the greatest lyric ever written?

Personally, and at the risk of sounding like an old romantic, I'd say:

I remember that time you told me
You said "Love is touching souls"
Well surely you touched mine
'cos part of you pours out of me
In these lines from time to time
O you're in my blood, you're like holy wine
Bitter, bitter and so sweet
O I could drink a case of you
And I would still be on my feet, O I would still be on my feet ...

Li la la, li la la, li la la, li la la, etc.

[John Hacker]

Heya Jane,

Joy Horse, I like that! Maybe Mary had a heroin habit or a deep seated longing for a pony that she used her last breath to express in her own blood on the wall. It's at least as sensible as many suggestions in diaryland and better than some.

Well done!

P.S. For the record, I don't think there are any letters, runes, drawings, hidden clues or secret messages on the wall. Just clouds waiting for someone to find whatever they look for. And of course Waldo. That guy is everywhere.

[Jessica Pisces]

I don't have it in front of me, but it's a paragraph or two up....It's in a section with some crossed out lines.

I found the passage with "tin match box empty" in the Maybrick A-Z available online. The verse, is as you said John, in a section with crossed out lines and was left out of the Wikisource transcript.

Unfortunately I also found "match box empty" in a poem by Josh Billings, American humourist (1818-1885).

[Jessica Pisces]

"The buro has three legs and one brick. The glass tew the buro swings on two pivots, which have lost their grip. There is one towel on the rack, thin, but wet. The soap is as tough tew wear as a whet stone. The soap is scented with cinamin ile, and varigated with spots. There iz three chairs, kane setters ; one is a rocker, and all three are busted. There is a match box, empty. There is no kurtin to the windo, and there don’t want to be enny; yu kan’t see out, and who kan see in?"
Josh Billing, Gazette and Courier, 1875, Franklin County Archives online

[Soothsayer]

Ah well, I note that you seemed to miss a query I had...

John,

Never one to shirk the challenge - but in truth it is simply a repetition of an argument I have already made.

I have previously made the case that in 1888, with no established history of the taunting, clue-leaving serial killer, I had no problem in the police seeing what appear to have been lots of marks on Kelly's wall, but finding them unremarkable - certainly somewhat less remarkable than the grotesquely mutilated body on the bed before them.

And then someone ('The Good Michael'?) suggested that the photographer's flashbulb may have shed sufficient light for them to be more marked in the split second of the now-eternal picture. Darn good point thought old Soothsayer.

This does not offer you some kind of proof on the case. I am not saying that this is definitley what occurred (before the postings come in). I am simply answering your request for how I felt that it could be possible that the letters were missed.

Amen to all that, your graces ...

[Jane Welland]

But...

At the risk of sounding like a goat - and I'm sure this is question has a very simple answer that I don't know of - couldn't any such marks on the wall, assuming their reality, simply be caused by blood spraying at the time of Mary Kelly's death?

It's probably a silly question.

Jane x

[Jane Welland]

Ah, but Sooth..

The lyrics are indeed lovely, but you forgot this bit...

Just before our love got lost you said
I am as constant as a northern star
And I said, constant in the darkness
Wheres that at?
If you want me Ill be in the bar

Disenchanted for the afternoon,

Jane x

P.S. That's Brucey, I believe...

[Soothsayer]

At the risk of sounding like a goat - and I'm sure this is question has a very simple answer that I don't know of - couldn't any such marks on the wall, assuming their reality, simply be caused by blood spraying at the time of Mary Kelly's death?

It's probably a silly question.

Jane x

Janey,

I promise you - if you ever want to enrol in Soothsayer's Armed and Dangerous Detective Office - you will be welcomed with open arms as you clearly have the requisite instinctive grasp of the provocateur about you.

Brilliant post - executed like a pro ...

[halomanuk]

Janey,

I promise you - if you ever want to enrol in Soothsayer's Armed and Dangerous Detective Office - you will be welcomed with open arms as you clearly have the requisite instinctive grasp of the provocateur about you.

Brilliant post - executed like a pro ...

Is that a coincidence that the initials of your organisation go like this Sooth ?
S.A.D.D.O.....

[Soothsayer]

Is that a coincidence that the initials of your organisation go like this Sooth ?
S.A.D.D.O.....

Halomanuk,

I'm afraid you've just failed the interview!