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One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

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    • I have found a reference to 'bloated buffoon' (1835)
      London Courier and Evening Gazette - Tuesday 05 May 1835 (p4)

      I don't believe it is too far of a stretch that using other adjectives beginning with B before the word Bufoon would be possible to be in use in everyday parlance. This is 53 years before 1888.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	Screenshot 2020-08-29 at 19.47.25.png Views:	0 Size:	39.6 KB ID:	740681
      Last edited by erobitha; 08-29-2020, 06:53 PM.
      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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      • Originally posted by erobitha View Post
        I have found a reference to 'bloated buffoon' (1835)
        London Courier and Evening Gazette - Tuesday 05 May 1835 (p4)

        I don't believe it is too far of a stretch that using other adjectives beginning with B before the word Bufoon would be possible to in use in everyday parlance. This is 53 years before 1888.

        Click image for larger version Name:	Screenshot 2020-08-29 at 19.47.25.png Views:	0 Size:	39.6 KB ID:	740681
        Ero, you’ve revealed yourself as an Orsam-hating, diary-defender, indulging in mental gymnastics by suggesting that Maybrick was such a literary genius that he might have substituted the word bumbling for bloated to invent the outrageously modern term ‘bumbling buffoon’.



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        • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

          Ero, you’ve revealed yourself as an Orsam-hating, diary-defender, indulging in mental gymnastics by suggesting that Maybrick was such a literary genius that he might have substituted the word bumbling for bloated to invent the outrageously modern term ‘bumbling buffoon’.


          Can I be both?
          "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
          - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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          • An excellent find by Ero.

            This is also from 1835:



            Comment


            • I have also found:

              'Buckinghamshire Buffoon' (1874)
              Leeds Times, Sat 21st Feb 1872 (p8)

              'Brooklyn Buffoon' (1882)
              Toronto Daily Mail, Friday 30th June 1882 (p4)

              'Bradbury's Buffoon' (1885)
              Sporting Gazette, Sat 10th Oct 1885 (p12)

              'Burly Buffoon' (1888)
              Star of Gwent, Friday 20 July 1888 (p6)


              It's a real mind bender on how anyone could even contemplate putting B words before Buffoon prior to 1950, it really is.

              "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
              - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                Hi Kattrup,

                I’ve found an 1866 example of ‘outfoxed’.
                Great, thanks for checking. I did find it strange that no examples popped up

                Comment


                • Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                  I have also found:

                  'Buckinghamshire Buffoon' (1874)
                  Leeds Times, Sat 21st Feb 1872 (p8)

                  'Brooklyn Buffoon' (1882)
                  Toronto Daily Mail, Friday 30th June 1882 (p4)

                  'Bradbury's Buffoon' (1885)
                  Sporting Gazette, Sat 10th Oct 1885 (p12)

                  'Burly Buffoon' (1888)
                  Star of Gwent, Friday 20 July 1888 (p6)


                  It's a real mind bender on how anyone could even contemplate putting B words before Buffoon prior to 1950, it really is.
                  Not a mind bender at all, that's the damnedest thing. Why is it that one specific phrase that can't (thus far) be found? It's curious, it really is.

                  How many different examples can be turned up with "bumbling" before something alliterative? That'd be interesting, there's no doubting the use of Buffoon, I wonder about Bumbling?
                  Thems the Vagaries.....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                    I have also found:

                    'Buckinghamshire Buffoon' (1874)
                    Leeds Times, Sat 21st Feb 1872 (p8)

                    'Brooklyn Buffoon' (1882)
                    Toronto Daily Mail, Friday 30th June 1882 (p4)

                    'Bradbury's Buffoon' (1885)
                    Sporting Gazette, Sat 10th Oct 1885 (p12)

                    'Burly Buffoon' (1888)
                    Star of Gwent, Friday 20 July 1888 (p6)


                    It's a real mind bender on how anyone could even contemplate putting B words before Buffoon prior to 1950, it really is.
                    Buffoon seems to have attracted alliterative adjectives like honey attracts flies. But let’s be sensible about it, no-one, least of all a scouse cotton merchant, could possibly have thought of combining ‘bumbling’ and ‘buffoon’. That’s just absurd. More than absurd - downright impossible.

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                    • Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                      Not a mind bender at all, that's the damnedest thing. Why is it that one specific phrase that can't (thus far) be found? It's curious, it really is.

                      How many different examples can be turned up with "bumbling" before something alliterative? That'd be interesting, there's no doubting the use of Buffoon, I wonder about Bumbling?
                      You are applying a modern context. We know bumbling buffon is a heavily used phrase over the past 50 years or so, especially in recent times with Trump and BoJo. Back then it most likely was not all that common a phrase at all. That could be true but doesn't mean it wasn't used. I recently only became aware of what a "gammon" was. People who used that phrase often to describe middle aged white men who were pro brexit (I'm not by the way). That took about 5 years to reach me. In the age of the inetrnet and 24 hour rolling news.

                      Was it possible that it could have been in use, even by just a select few in conversation, absolutely. People who putting B word adjectives in front of the word Buffoon 50 years prior to 1888.
                      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                      Comment


                      • ‘Blundering buffoon’ appears as early as 1853. You couldn’t get much closer in sound or meaning than that.

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                        • Another closet diarist who pretends they're sitting on the fence. At least caz has some company now.

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                          • So, that’s ‘bumbling buffoon’ and ‘outfoxed’ dealt with.

                            NEXT!

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                            • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                              ‘Blundering buffoon’ appears as early as 1853. You couldn’t get much closer in sound or meaning than that.
                              Good. Now find bumbling buffoon and get back to us.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post



                                How many examples of this wonderfully alliterative phrase can you find in the 70 years between 1950 and 2020?

                                Thousands?
                                Hundreds?
                                Dozens?

                                I’ve only found a handful and I’m left wondering why.

                                I suspect its because you're looking on the wrong side of the pond, Gary.

                                If you punch the phrase into the British newspaper archive you get only 22 immediate and obvious hits, none earlier than 1971.

                                But if you punch the phrase into a primarily American newspaper archive (newspapers.com) you get 1,084 immediate hits, from 1949 onward, including dozens upon dozens of examples in television reviews, movie reviews, editorials, and even crosswords puzzles, which suggests that by now this alliterative insult had widely disseminated into mainstream culture.

                                Surely you aren't suggesting that all these writers independently came up with the phrase? (And as previously noted, it can also be found in modern film dialogue and music lyrics--also in America).

                                Meanwhile, it's now on the British side of the pond. As we can see in the following bit from the Daily Mail.

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                                I am convinced the phrase was popularized by American tv/radio, possibly a specific show, but one I have yet to identify.

                                Good catch by The Baron.

                                Any post-1949 Yanks among the suspects? Anne Barrett spent time in Oz, but I found ZERO results for "bumbling buffoon" in Paper's Past, an archive for newspapers in the Land Down Under.
                                Last edited by rjpalmer; 08-29-2020, 10:20 PM.

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