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One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

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  • Originally posted by Observer View Post
    I've got Feldy's book Graham. As far as I remember the tale goes that Anne's father was Flo Maybrick's grandson. Apparently the 16 year old Flo got knocked up by some Monkey Hanger and gave birth to Billy's father in Hartlepool. Though what a 16 year old Southern Belle from a wealthy American family was doing in Hartlepool is beyond me. Perhaps she had a penchant for Gregg's stotty cakes. Don't quote me though I'll have to have a look at Feldy's book.

    Warning: All easily influenced browsers of this thread who have a limited knowledge of the Maybrick Saga disregard the above information until it can be verified

    Thank you
    My Feldy book is falling apart (I'm in good company) so until I can manage to tape it back together a bit better than I did the other day, I can't consult it. However, I can tell you that what you say is essentially what Feldman claims to have been told by Billy Graham. I think there was some doubt (expressed by Feldman himself) about Feldy's interviewing skills, and also Billy Graham was pretty well-advanced in senility. But it does seem that Florence visited this country prior to the voyage on SS Baltic on which she met our Jim. Ref: your warning, I think it must still stand.

    What's a 'Monkey Hanger'?

    Graham

    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Graham View Post

      My Feldy book is falling apart (I'm in good company) so until I can manage to tape it back together a bit better than I did the other day, I can't consult it. However, I can tell you that what you say is essentially what Feldman claims to have been told by Billy Graham. I think there was some doubt (expressed by Feldman himself) about Feldy's interviewing skills, and also Billy Graham was pretty well-advanced in senility. But it does seem that Florence visited this country prior to the voyage on SS Baltic on which she met our Jim. Ref: your warning, I think it must still stand.

      What's a 'Monkey Hanger'?

      Graham
      Yes I seem to remember that a wealthy Liverpudlian ship owner came into the equation. I have the hardback version but it seems to have been swallowed by the black hole in my spare room. A Monkey Hanger is the name given to an inhabitant of Hartlepool apparently.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Observer View Post

        Yes I seem to remember that a wealthy Liverpudlian ship owner came into the equation. I have the hardback version but it seems to have been swallowed by the black hole in my spare room. A Monkey Hanger is the name given to an inhabitant of Hartlepool apparently.
        In about 1815, a shipload of monkeys ran aground in Hartlepool, releasing some of the monkeys on to the shore. It's probably apocryphal, but it is said that they were mistaken for Napoleonic soldiers and subsequently hung.
        Iconoclast

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        • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post

          In about 1815, a shipload of monkeys ran aground in Hartlepool, releasing some of the monkeys on to the shore. It's probably apocryphal, but it is said that they were mistaken for Napoleonic soldiers and subsequently hung.
          Ah, right. So it's the same as we English recalling the ship-load of sheep that foundered off the coast of Pembrokeshire and being mistaken for women. You get my meaning.

          Graham

          We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

          Comment


          • It's just occurred to me that Florence Maybrick made a return visit to England, I believe in the late 1920's or early 1930's, and that she said she came here to 'see her children' once more. Children? Plural? She had, so far as is known for sure, only two children with James Maybrick: a daughter Gladys and a son James usually known as 'Bobo'. 'Bobo' had departed for Canada at some point, and was working in the gold-mining industry (again IIRC) as an analyst, and had died after he drank a beaker of poison thinking it was water. This was some time around 1910 - 1912. So her only known child when she returned to England was her daughter. But she said children. Just a thought, but could her reference to children refer not just to Gladys but to a son she gave birth to before she met James Maybrick, the child of a liason between herself and the bloke from Hartlepool? If so, could the imagination be stretched sufficiently to suggest that this son really was the father of Billy Graham, as Feldman suspects? And that he was still alive when she returned to England? Also, again IIRC, there was a story (legend?) that Florence had given birth whilst she was in prison. If true, who was the father of this child? So how many friggin' sprogs did she actually give birth to?

            Graham
            We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Graham View Post
              It's just occurred to me that Florence Maybrick made a return visit to England, I believe in the late 1920's or early 1930's, and that she said she came here to 'see her children' once more. Children? Plural? She had, so far as is known for sure, only two children with James Maybrick: a daughter Gladys and a son James usually known as 'Bobo'. 'Bobo' had departed for Canada at some point, and was working in the gold-mining industry (again IIRC) as an analyst, and had died after he drank a beaker of poison thinking it was water. This was some time around 1910 - 1912. So her only known child when she returned to England was her daughter. But she said children. Just a thought, but could her reference to children refer not just to Gladys but to a son she gave birth to before she met James Maybrick, the child of a liason between herself and the bloke from Hartlepool? If so, could the imagination be stretched sufficiently to suggest that this son really was the father of Billy Graham, as Feldman suspects? And that he was still alive when she returned to England? Also, again IIRC, there was a story (legend?) that Florence had given birth whilst she was in prison. If true, who was the father of this child? So how many friggin' sprogs did she actually give birth to?

              Graham
              Hi Graham,

              yes, this is the hypothesis of Mr Feldman. Shipowner Henry Flynn sires William Graham out of wedlock (mother is Flo Chandler), 1879, Hartlepool.

              She returns to England in 1927. By the usual rules of ridiculous coincidence which simply litter this case, that's also the year Henry Flynn dies. Anne Graham tells the tale of her father Billy taking her to a grave when she was a child and saying "He was family". That was Henry Flynn's grave. All circumstantial, but very intriguing nevertheless.

              I would suggest that you take your battered copy of Feldman and check out the photographic plates which depict Florence Maybrick as an older lady, William Graham as an older man, and his daughter Mary Graham (sister of Billy and aunt of Anne) also as an older lady and marvel at yet another astonishing coincidence. The apple definitely didn't fall far from the tree regarding facial structure in old age in the Graham lineage, it would appear.

              The foetus which sadly failed to survive whilst Flo was in prison would have been fathered by Alfred Brierley in March 1889 at Flatman's Hotel in London. She was only around 26 at the time so that would have been four pregnancies and three births which by the standards of the age would not have been that many.

              Ike
              Iconoclast

              Comment


              • Thanks for this, Ike. Henry Flynn, that was the bloke. Yes, I do remember Anne telling the story of her Pa taking her to a grave, which turned out to be Henry Flynn's. No smoke without fire, is there? I can't recall reading that Florence had a stillbirth or a miscarriage in clink, only that she had 'given birth'.

                I've just about got my tatty copy of Feldman back together in correct page order - I hope - and I also hope it stays together long enough for a re-read during house arrest. Someone mentioned that there's a hardback version of this book, so I'll have a scan of the net for it and treat myself if I can locate one.

                What always sticks with me is the fact that Feldman was a film-producer and had his sights set on a Ripper block-buster (which never came off), and he pushed matters forward at a breakneck pace as though working to a time-table. Maybe he was. But he didn't mess around or penny-pinch when it came to employing accomplished investigators, so I don't think all of his conclusions are questionable. Far from it, in fact. And I did enjoy reading about the 'Whittlesey Maybricks', as it's a part of the world I used to know quite well....

                Graham
                We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Graham View Post
                  But he didn't mess around or penny-pinch when it came to employing accomplished investigators, so I don't think all of his conclusions are questionable. Far from it, in fact.
                  Alas, a lot has changed since the mid-1990s. We inhabit a post-Patricia Cornwell and Jari Louhelainen world of Ripper Studies. Comparing photographs would no longer fly. It didn't even fly particularly well in 1997. Everyone knows you can get a DNA test kit for $75-$100 and would want Anne Graham to swab the roof of her mouth with a Q-tip.

                  Comment


                  • The timeline is fuzzy and vague, but Ripper Diary page 4 describes Tony Devereux, 58, as 'recently retired' in 1991 (?) from his job as a compositor at Liverpool Echo. When exactly, I wonder.

                    The Echo ran a number of short articles on the Maybrick Case in the summer 1989, it being the centennial of the Florence Maybrick trial. (A reconstruction of the trial took place in Central Liverpool). It would be odd to think that Barrett's friend may have set-up the type for those articles, that is, if he hadn't already retired. Barrett was always yammering on about the Knowsley Buildings. Of course, one person's coincidence is another person's irrelevancy.

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                    • Billy Grahams father William was born in Harlepool in the North East of England in 1879. His father was Adam Graham, and his mother was Alice(nee Spence). Florence Maybrick was not on the birth certificate. She would have been 15 at the time. Billy Graham intimated in his interview with Feldman that Florence Maybrick was his grand mother, this could not be the case.

                      In an interview with Keith Skinner Billy Graham went on to give information about Florence Maybrick that people used to talk about her in the shops with regard to her having a baby before her marriage. How did he know this? Indeed how did anyone know this? Where would they get that information from? Feldman goes on to introduce into the saga one Henry Stanley Flinn. The plot thickens. Stanley Henry Flynn apparently is the real grand father of Billy Graham. In a World where 15 year old Southern American Belles are constantly chaperoned, in like Flinn, manages to slip the chaperone a few bob, and seduces the 15 year old Florence Maybrick, lord only knows where, and in 1879 out pops William Graham, father of Billy, who is registered as being born in Hartlepool to Adam, and Alice Graham.

                      Feldman goes on to make a lot out of the fact that Florence Maybrick after being released from prison, temporarily stayed at a convent in Truro, and was known to the nuns as Mrs Graham. Feldman maintained that she took the name Graham, as a nod to Adam Graham, the father of her son William. Hold on Mr Feldman shouldn't she have called herself Flinn the "real" father of William? Very strange.

                      It get stranger. Feldman then goes on to state that when Florence travelled to America in 1904, she travelled under the name Rose Ingraham. Ingraham was a family name, Florence's grandmother was an Ingraham. Feldman got his information that Florence was using the name Graham from the Cornwall Gazette. One of two things has happened here. Either the reporter has miss-represented Ingraham for Graham. Or Florence has dropped the "In" form Ingraham to protect the family name.

                      Of course you can favour the far fancier reason that she called herself Graham due to the supposed affair she had with Adam Graham from Hartlepool, or was it Stanley Henry Flinn.
                      Last edited by Observer; 04-13-2020, 03:07 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                        The timeline is fuzzy and vague, but Ripper Diary page 4 describes Tony Devereux, 58, as 'recently retired' in 1991 (?) from his job as a compositor at Liverpool Echo. When exactly, I wonder.

                        The Echo ran a number of short articles on the Maybrick Case in the summer 1989, it being the centennial of the Florence Maybrick trial. (A reconstruction of the trial took place in Central Liverpool). It would be odd to think that Barrett's friend may have set-up the type for those articles, that is, if he hadn't already retired. Barrett was always yammering on about the Knowsley Buildings. Of course, one person's coincidence is another person's irrelevancy.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        And of course this coupled with the 1988 centenary of the Ripper murders, and the publicity surrouning that, in all probability sparked a light bulb moment in the head of Mike I've always wanted to be a writer Barrett.

                        I've always had the opinion that the Maybrick Diary started life as a novel, then the scrap metal merchant gene inherent in Mike the pen Barrett kicked into action

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                        • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                          And of course this coupled with the 1988 centenary of the Ripper murders, and the publicity surrouning that, in all probability sparked a light bulb moment in the head of Mike I've always wanted to be a writer Barrett.

                          I've always had the opinion that the Maybrick Diary started life as a novel, then the scrap metal merchant gene inherent in Mike the pen Barrett kicked into action
                          Hmmm, well, yes.......in the event of the Diary's not ever being proven to be an old production, I would have to say that the above is a most sensible suggestion.

                          Graham
                          We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Graham View Post

                            Hmmm, well, yes.......in the event of the Diary's not ever being proven to be an old production, I would have to say that the above is a most sensible suggestion.

                            Graham
                            So - following the other thread - around 1989, Mike is prompted to research into Maybrick's life. He wants to be a writer but he needs a subject matter. It's also more or less the centenary of the Riper murders. There must have been a moment when he put the two things together and thought "We see Jack as a quintessential Cockney, but maybe he could have been someone who travelled in to London for good reasons and then escaped again? This could have applied to James Maybrick. There's absolutely no evidence to link Maybrick to the Ripper crimes, but maybe I could tell a story that suggests it?".

                            And what started as an innocent attempt to write a good yarn became - in early 1992 - a worldwide hoax. By the way, when I was writing the brilliant Society's Pillar, I came across a very entertaining yarn along similar lines: Derek Ansell's 1998 'The Whitechapel Murders - The Life and Death of Jack the Ripper'. Well worth a read, I'd say, but just for jolly.

                            So, there you go - in just two short posts on two threads I appear to have solved the mystery in its entirety.

                            Can anyone think of any reason whatsoever why this could not have been the truth of the matter?

                            Ike
                            Iconoclast

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                            • Many congrats, Ike. The mystery is solved. I salute you. But seriously - I was just saying in response to the sensible Observer that, if it ever happens that the conception and manufacture of the Diary could be traced back to Mike or Annanmike, absolutely 100% without question, that I'd say that the 'novel' suggestion could be considered as a possibility. But as you well know, I opine that the Diary dates back a fair time prior to Mikey even being thought of.

                              Graham
                              We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                              Comment


                              • Just for jolly, peeps, can anyone think of a single piece of evidence which actually confirms that Mike Barrett (possibly in cahoots with his then wife Anne) created the masterpiece which is the Maybrick scrapbook? During the tortured years when Barrett was claiming authorship, he had countess opportunities to produce hard facts to show how he created his finest work, and - as is well understood - he failed on every occasion. Indeed, he relied time and time again on his own protestations of authorship, as though they mean anything at all to serious commentators and as though protestation alone is a reliable route to the truth. His claims were angry, empty, frustrated, incoherent, imbecilic, and utterly puerile, and clearly no serious commentator could ever read of them and argue that therein lies the path to truth. Any non-serious commentator who does so perhaps gives away their purpose in doing so in the process: an agenda to be delivered regardless of the reliability (of even existence) of any evidence.

                                I think that a number of people would point to Barrett's request for a Victorian diary with "at least 20 pages". Assuming that this was a reliable transcription by Earl of Barrett's spoken request (over the telephone), we may well be prompted to query the request - it does seem heavily-tainted with the reek of corruption, after all - but the serious commentator would ask of themselves whether it was in itself any sort of categorical proof that Mike Barrett had created the greatest hoax in history.

                                If such a facet of the case were not categorical proof (or even any sort of proof at all) that Barrett created the Maybrick scrapbook, what evidence are we left with that he did? Do we have the ink? Do we have the pens? We don't. Barrett said he gave them to his sister to destroy or hide. This is a remarkable claim - and one, of course, which his sister quickly denied. It is remarkable not by the nature of the claim but by the sheer irrelevance of the claim. Why would Barrett need to give these articles to someone else to destroy or hide? Just do it yourself, Mike - cut out the middlewoman!

                                Do we have the auction stub or receipt from when the black ledger was purchased? Is anyone even vaguely surprised that the answer to this is no?

                                Does Barrett's tale of how the scrapbook was created resonate with any known facts? The details he provided were famously riddled with errors, but the general tale could have been correct even if the specific tale were not if it were true that Mike Barrett had had the debilitating 'stroke' he - and he alone - spoke of so frequently after his confession (that he created the scrapbook). Here's the rub. Where is the evidence that Mike Barrett ever had a stroke? Did his GP - a Dr Khan - ever confirm this, or was it solely down to Barrett's protestations again that his medical affliction is so commonly banded-about as the reason why the coherent genius who created the scrapbook so quickly became the circus buffoon so soon afterwards. No, there is no evidence whatsoever that Mike Barrett ever had a stroke. And - if he didn't have a stroke - what then caused his loss of mental agility? Well, here's the alternative: he never had any, and he didn't create the Maybrick scrapbook.

                                We have hashed and re-hashed all this stuff over and over down the long years. Fortunately for the study of the scrapbook my brilliant Society's Pillar brilliantly highlights the case against Maybrick and pretty much nails every argument made for a hoax.

                                There is no argument for a hoax. Work was done on Battlecrease House for the first time in over 35,000 days since Maybrick's death on the very day Mike Barrett first attempted to peddle what he later claimed to be a hoax. Leaving aside the red lights flashing madly at that astonishing coincidence, he failed miserably in accounting for the chronology of the hoax - so badly indeed that his few acolytes (who really ought to know better) rely on a version whereby he acquires the black ledger more or less at the start of April 1992 and in just 11 days either creates the text from scratch or else transcribes it from his typed version. Anyone arguing for this as the truth of the matter has to have an agenda underpinning it because it is neither realistic (given everything we know about Mike Barrett as a person and the inaccuracies in his version) nor backed-up by any evidence whatsoever. It is impossible to know exactly what that agenda is other than - perhaps - a deep-rooted reluctance to end the long chase for Jack.

                                I put it to this house that Mike Barrett had no hand whatsoever in the creation of the Maybrick scrapbook.

                                Ike
                                Last edited by Iconoclast; 04-23-2020, 11:05 AM.
                                Iconoclast

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