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One Incontrovertible, Unequivocal, Undeniable Fact Which Refutes the Diary

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  • Thank you, Caligo. Much appreciated.

    c.d.

    Comment


    • "To say that the initials are blood splatters is simply infantile. They are well-formed members of the alphabet, and no amount of wishful cursing them away will change that."

      But does it not seem strange that they were not noticed by the police? With the GSG still fresh in their minds wouldn't they have looked closely for another message or some type of clue?

      "Infantile" seems a bit of a stretch when examples of pareidolia are fairly commonplace.

      For example: https://www.google.com/search?q=virg...AQIGw&dpr=1.25

      I have been there and I can tell you that it really looks like the Virgin Mary. However it seems that chemicals in the coating on the windows were leached out by the water used to sprinkle the shrubbery and that process created the image.

      And can we be sure that initials is to be taken literally? Could it simply refer to clues in general?

      Seems like there are lots of leaps of faith here in order to support a theory.

      c.d.

      Comment


      • If they are in fact initials on the wall and were left to taunt the police or provide them with a clue why draw them in such an obscure way so that they were not noticed? Even if he had drawn them huge how likely is it that Abberline would have taken one look and said go arrest James Maybrick?

        c.d.

        Comment


        • Hi All,

          "I had a key,
          And with it I did flee."


          Star, 12th November 1888—

          “The key of the woman’s door has been found, so her murderer did not carry it away with him, as was at first supposed.”

          Regards,

          Simon
          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
            "To say that the initials are blood splatters is simply infantile. They are well-formed members of the alphabet, and no amount of wishful cursing them away will change that."

            But does it not seem strange that they were not noticed by the police? With the GSG still fresh in their minds wouldn't they have looked closely for another message or some type of clue?

            "Infantile" seems a bit of a stretch when examples of pareidolia are fairly commonplace.

            For example: https://www.google.com/search?q=virg...AQIGw&dpr=1.25

            I have been there and I can tell you that it really looks like the Virgin Mary. However it seems that chemicals in the coating on the windows were leached out by the water used to sprinkle the shrubbery and that process created the image.

            And can we be sure that initials is to be taken literally? Could it simply refer to clues in general?

            Seems like there are lots of leaps of faith here in order to support a theory.

            c.d.
            You're over-thinking this, c.d..

            The author of the journal makes reference to Florence Maybrick's initials around the time he or she is describing the Kelly murder scene.

            And then those letters pop up on her wall once detailed analysis is done on the photograph (Feldman).

            You can call it whatever you want to wish it away. That's your right. But whilst I have no doubt that pareidolia is a common enough phenomenon, it does not mean that it can necessarily be the answer every time.

            Ike
            Iconoclast

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
              Hi All,

              "I had a key,
              And with it I did flee."


              Star, 12th November 1888—

              “The key of the woman’s door has been found, so her murderer did not carry it away with him, as was at first supposed.”

              Regards,

              Simon
              Simon,

              Come on, the journal author says the key was taken away, and the Star claimed that the key had been found. I think you're missing a rather obvious point: Where did the Star say the key had been found? If the key was categorically found inside Kelly's room, then the journal is almost certainly a forgery.

              But how come the door was locked???

              Ike
              Iconoclast

              Comment


              • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                If they are in fact initials on the wall and were left to taunt the police or provide them with a clue why draw them in such an obscure way so that they were not noticed? Even if he had drawn them huge how likely is it that Abberline would have taken one look and said go arrest James Maybrick?

                c.d.
                Once again, you are over-thinking this, c.d..

                In a moment of blood-lust, the killer wrote 'FM' on Kelly's wall and the evidence for that lies in the photographs (there is no debate about that). The Maybrick journal makes reference to this. If Maybrick was the killer then he wrote the letters and then recalled them in his journal, and he presumably thought he was being very risky and taunting. The fact that he wasn't is irrelevant. It's all about what he thought he was doing that determines the relevance of his comments in the journal.

                I am not in the least bit surprised that the letters in a dimly-lit room were not noticed. There was a lot of gore to get through.

                Ike
                Iconoclast

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Iconoclast View Post
                  In a moment of blood-lust, the killer wrote 'FM' on Kelly's wall and the evidence for that lies in the photographs (there is no debate about that).
                  Really? I don't see it and never have... sorry

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
                    Really? I don't see it and never have... sorry
                    yup. people only see what they want to see.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
                      Really? I don't see it and never have... sorry
                      Check out Trevor Marriott's 'Jack the Ripper: A 21st Century Investigation'. Trevor comes on these threads a lot and is passionately anti-journal, and yet he published the clearest view of the 'FM' initials in his book.

                      Just because you are looking at a poor version of the photograph doesn't mean that other people are making things up!
                      Iconoclast

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                        yup. people only see what they want to see.
                        Check out Trevor Marriott's 'Jack the Ripper: A 21st Century Investigation'. Trevor comes on these threads a lot and is passionately anti-journal, and yet he published the clearest view of the 'FM' initials in his book.

                        Just because you are looking at a poor version of the photograph doesn't mean that other people are making things up!
                        Iconoclast

                        Comment


                        • Hi Iconoclast,

                          The key went missing soon after the window got broken on 30th October, and so on 9th November the door could not have been locked with the key.

                          And as the key had gone missing soon after the window got broken on 30th October, Jack the Diarist could not have had the key, and with it he did flee.

                          Regards,

                          Simon
                          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                            Hi Iconoclast,

                            The key went missing soon after the window got broken on 30th October, and so on 9th November the door could not have been locked with the key.

                            And as the key had gone missing soon after the window got broken on 30th October, Jack the Diarist could not have had the key, and with it he did flee.

                            Regards,

                            Simon
                            Hi Simon,

                            If this were true, it would significantly impact on the journal's case. I'm pretty sure that this was covered at length either by Harrison or Feldman or both so I will need to come back to you on that.

                            Cheers,

                            Ike
                            Iconoclast

                            Comment


                            • This thread is so comical now, it's become quite good evening entertainment.

                              Check Feldman, paperback edition, P70. Briefly:

                              Joe Barnett told the police that when Kelly was pissed one time she broke a window pane. Barnett said that when he lost the key they were able to unlock and lock the door by reaching in through the broken window and operating the door-bolt. So why did the police order McCarthy to break down the door to gain entrance? Feldman says the bolt must have been visible through the busted window. Whatever, the door had been locked with a key.
                              Feldman says that The Times of the next day said that "the murderer apparently took the key away with him, as it cannot be found".

                              Then, Feldman says that The Star of 12 November said that 'the key to the woman's door has been found'.

                              Feldman, who of course believed that Maybrick wrote the sodding Diary, said that the Diarist was quite correct when he wrote 'with this key I did flee'. But surely Barnett said that the key went missing soon after the window was broken on 30th October, so as Simon Wood says, how the hell could the murderer have swanned off with it on the 9th November? Feldman kind of by-passes this point.

                              Another (sharp) nail in the (rapidly diminishing) belief that Maybrick was both the Ripper and the diarist.

                              Who's up next?

                              Graham
                              We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                              Comment


                              • Hi Graham,

                                Many thanks.

                                I have a feeling we've at last nailed down the lid on the Diary coffin, although I have no doubt that thousands will protest.

                                Regards,

                                Simon
                                Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                                Comment

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