25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Sam Flynn]

Surely the electricians would've finished the job and gone back to the company office, to return gear and time-sheets and clock-off, that's if they didn't have another job to go to after that one.

I don't see how they randomly ring the university, arrange a meeting, finish work, travel from Aigburth to town, meet with the university, then go where? Work again? Home? The Saddle? Do they meet Mike right away?

If so, then Arthur Rigby - the only electrician present for any length of time - must have started work extra early to have fitted in the 8 hours logged on his time-sheet. Apart from a brief two hours when he was joined by an apprentice, James Cofopoulos, it seems that Rigby worked at Battlecrease alone.

[John G]

It is very very doubtful that any of the electricians would've met Mike at lunch, because Aigburth is nowhere near to Anfield, where the Saddle is. It's a good drive into town, then towards Anfield, which is about 10+ minutes outside of the city-center. If they were to have a drink during the shift, it'd have to have been at the Kingsman, over the road from the cricket club.

Surely the electricians would've finished the job and gone back to the company office, to return gear and time-sheets and clock-off, that's if they didn't have another job to go to after that one.

I don't see how they randomly ring the university, arrange a meeting, finish work, travel from Aigburth to town, meet with the university, then go where? Work again? Home? The Saddle? Do they meet Mike right away?

There's simply not enough time for all of this and for Mike to contact a publisher in London all during working business hours.

Thanks for this, Mike. Very informative. I agree, there's not enough time for the publisher to be contacted on the same day of the alleged discovery. And, like I said, where would he have got the telephone number from anyway. And such actions would have been totally irrational: any sane person is going to want to authenticate the document first, or at least they're going to want to do some research; they might even suspect that they're the victim of a wind-up. There is no way their first thought and action is going to be to phone a publisher. It's completely absurd.

[Mike J. G.]

If so, then Arthur Rigby - the only electrician present for any length of time - must have started work extra early to have fitted in the 8 hours logged on his time-sheet. Apart from a brief two hours when he was joined by an apprentice, James Cofopoulos, it seems that Rigby worked at Battlecrease alone.

I'd say that the work would've realistically only started as early as 8am, which, if you add in lunch-breaks would take the work until after 4pm to complete.

I don't see how they then made arrangements with the university, traveled from Aigburth to town, returned to the work offices (which they surely must have done to return their time-sheets and clock-off) then either go home first, or straight to the Saddle, meet Mike, have him look at the book, then ring London.

That's just totally not doable, unless I'm missing something.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't see how they then made arrangements with the university, traveled from Aigburth to town, returned to the work offices (which they surely must have done to return their time-sheets and clock-off) then either go home first, or straight to the Saddle, meet Mike, have him look at the book, then ring London.

That's just totally not doable, unless I'm missing something.

I don't think you're missing anything, Mike. It's completely infeasible.

[Mike J. G.]

Thanks for this, Mike. Very informative. I agree, there's not enough time for the publisher to be contacted on the same day of the alleged discovery. And, like I said, where would he have got the telephone number from anyway. And such actions would have been totally irrational: any sane person is going to want to authenticate the document first, or at least they're going to want to do some research; they might even suspect that they're the victim of a wind-up. There is no way their first thought and action is going to be to phone a publisher. It's completely absurd.

Y'know, I hadn't even considered how the number for the publisher was obtained, that's a very good point.

So, we're supposed to believe that Barrett had this number on him at all times? He certainly couldn't have popped on the internet, and I doubt if the local yellow-pages would have a number for a book publisher in London.

I don't even understand how they go to the Saddle, and just happen upon Mike Barrett, bringing up the book. There'd have to be a reason for them to talk to Barrett, like a preexisting friendship or acquaintance.

Unless they went into the pub with a kind of general guess what we found? shout to everyone in there.

It's all very very dubious. I brought this up with Caz, who seems to think the time-line is fine, when anyone should plainly see that it isn't.

[Sam Flynn]

Unless they went into the pub with a kind of general guess what we found? shout to everyone in there.

It beats me why they'd want to part with such an interesting object so quickly. Even if you thought it was a wind-up, you're going to want to spend a day or so reading it, surely, not get shot of it right away. If they did want to get rid, why didn't they give it to Paul Dodd, or at least show it to him and give him first refusal.

I say "they", but it seems that it was only Arthur Rigby who was on premise for the bulk of the time. I doubt that the (young?) apprentice hung around for more than the two hours he was there, presumably just helping Rigby out.

[Mike J. G.]

It beats me why they'd want to part with such an interesting object so quickly. Even if you thought it was a wind-up, you're going to want to spend a day or so reading it, surely, not get shot of it right away. If they did want to get rid, why didn't they give it to Paul Dodd, or at least show it to him and give him first refusal.

I say "they", but it seems that it was only Arthur Rigby who was on premise for the bulk of the time. I doubt that the (young?) apprentice hung around for more than the two hours he was there, presumably just helping Rigby out.

That is another issue I have with it, Sam. Why would they find a potentially rare item in a client's house, and refrain from showing them? I'm guessing that under those circumstances, these were cowboys, the likes of which we see on the show Rogue Traders.

I know that dodgy people exist, but I find it hard to believe that any of these men would find a book in a house and hide it from the person who they were working for. I'd guess, and it's just a guess, that upon finding a book beneath the floor, they'd shout out to Paul Dodd and inform him that they'd found something interesting.

So, if it was Rigby, then we're being lead to believe that he's not a very good character. I'd be surprised if he'd still be in employment had his company found out that he'd stolen from a client, putting the company name in a bad light.

Part of me can accept that someone may find something potentially exciting and want to show it off, but I don't see why they'd suddenly hand it to a dubious man like Barrett for safe-keeping if they'd taken the time to risk their job by nicking it in the first place.

It's all very baffling.

I don't believe it ever came out of Battlecrease, and if Rigby drank at the Saddle with Mike and lived on the same street as Tony D. then it all seems a bit rich.

[Mike J. G.]

Is it at all possible that Rigby knew that he'd be doing a job at Battlecrease over a week in advance?

Surely, the necessary works would've been planned, as it seems the work itself was a big'ish job, and not something that was done spare-of-the-moment.

Are there records for when the work was booked with the company by Dodd? Surely there has to be, seeing as they still had the time-sheets available.

Had Dodd used the company before, and thus used them again as he'd trusted them with the work?

These are the things that should've been checked by a thorough researcher.

[Mike J. G.]

Is this a derivative of the same company? http://www.merseyside.com/info/11239/

It seems Portus and Rhodes have an office based on St. Mary's road, Garston, which is mere minutes away from my house and Battlecrease. Is this the same group who carried out the work in 1992?

If so, I could possibly make inquiries as to whether any records exist of previous work at the house before 1992, and if there are records for when the work was ordered by Dodd.

E.T.A

Bloody hell, I pass this place all the time, and I think the sign is still there: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercia...-58719146.html

I'd not made any connection that this was the place, seems it's been sold on, or has been put up for sale. I was only in Garston just yesterday and passed that building.

[Ally]

I've never quite understood why a bunch of electricians would bother stealing a book in the first place.

Why in the world would they have thought there was any intrinsic value to the outside world that would make it worth stealing in the first place?

Oh look here's somebody's old diary...that's worth a mint, let's steal it.

[Mike J. G.]

I've never quite understood why a bunch of electricians would bother stealing a book in the first place.

Why in the world would they have thought there was any intrinsic value to the outside world that would make it worth stealing in the first place?

Oh look here's somebody's old diary...that's worth a mint, let's steal it.

Tbf, the house in question (if it was indeed ever found there, it's doubtful that it was) is historic for the Maybrick story. If anything was found there, it'd be of significance, as the story of Jim and Flo' was a very well-known one.

If a book was found purporting to be the diary of the Ripper, it'd be of some significance, especially being found in such an historic and significant house.

What I don't understand is why a supposed thief would take said book to a university who would undoubtedly ask him where he obtained it, and bring him under some risk of being caught.

If you steal an antique, you generally wouldn't take it to anyone that may ask you where you got it.

[Abby Normal]

Hey Caz.

Your accusation of pot stirring amuses. I mean really? You are in no position to throw stones on that subject.

You stated, quite clearly that these notes would be available to the public, and that Casebook were offered them. This is an untruth isn't it? It's fine, just don't dress something up to be what it isn't.

Look. Your "Vlad the Impaler" comments would usually be treated with the good humour I'm sure you intended. However, the fact that Ally has been labelled a whore by the man and threatened with rape, the fact Beggy has also been threatened with a good beating and Adam Wood had to endure Cobbs goading days after his fathers passing after battling cancer, well forgive me if I don't find your words funny.

And ignorance is no defence. Just ask Gareth.


Monty

Hi Monty/Ally/all
who is this Cobb guy and whats he the owner/seller/author/organizer of?
I just want to make sure I don't inadvertently tout, buy attend etc. anything hes a part of.

[John G]

Y'know, I hadn't even considered how the number for the publisher was obtained, that's a very good point.

So, we're supposed to believe that Barrett had this number on him at all times? He certainly couldn't have popped on the internet, and I doubt if the local yellow-pages would have a number for a book publisher in London.

I don't even understand how they go to the Saddle, and just happen upon Mike Barrett, bringing up the book. There'd have to be a reason for them to talk to Barrett, like a preexisting friendship or acquaintance.

Unless they went into the pub with a kind of general guess what we found? shout to everyone in there.

It's all very very dubious. I brought this up with Caz, who seems to think the time-line is fine, when anyone should plainly see that it isn't.

The time-line makes no logical sense at all. And why show the diary to Barrett, a man they had no proven connection to? Why would they think he was an expert on the subject? He certainly didn't seem to give that impression to anyone who subsequently met him!

I think there's next to no chance that the pub would have a Yellow Pages for anywhere outside the local area. Maybe Barrett just phoned Directory Enquiries saying, "Hello, I've just come across Jack the Ripper's Diary. Could you connect me with a random London publisher!" And, of course, they just happened to be working after normal office hours!

[Mike J. G.]

The time-line makes no logical sense at all. And why show the diary to Barrett, a man they had no proven connection to? Why would they think he was an expert on the subject? He certainly didn't seem to give that impression to anyone who subsequently met him!

On one hand, we're being told that Devereux gave it to Barrett, and on the other, we're being told that the electrician/Rigby gave it to Barrett.

It's odd that those three men were all connected in at least one way or other; Devereux knew Barrett, and also lived in the same street as Rigby.

When was Barrett supposed to have loaned Devereux the Whittington-Egan book containing the Maybrick chapters? Is this known?

[Mike J. G.]

Maybe Barrett just phoned Directory Enquiries saying, "Hello, I've just come across Jack the Ripper's Diary. Could you connect me with a random London publisher!" And, of course, they just happened to be working after normal office hours!

lol, I'd have genuinely loved that to have happened, tbh.

It is very suspicious, and I don't see how anyone can claim that it isn't.

It's difficult to reason that Rigby completed 8+ hours of work in Aigburth, went back to Garston to return the gear/time-sheets and clock-off, travel to town, meet the random university bloke, then go to Anfield (and thinking about it, it'd have to be done in that order, as Garston is down the road from Aigburth (about 10 minutes) so they'd obviously go there first from Aigburth, and then into town to the university, and then out to Anfield) and meet Mike, and then contact London, all before the offices of the publishers had closed.

And it's a coincidence that the publisher had a writer, Harrison, involved, who had already had plans to make a story about Maybrick, IIRC.