25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Kaz]

All I can do is ask, and I've sent an email through to a person that I know works at the club, and I've used their work-email to do so.

If I get any positive response then I can walk down there and see what's what.

I've no idea what they'll have stored, or even if it's stored on site, or if anything still even exists from beyond the 1900's.

The club has been there since the early 19th century, so I'd have to assume that a lot of stuff has either been destroyed or misplaced or just plain dumped.

I'd hazard a guess that there's little chance of finding any information about a specific person and their attendance there, but it's worth a try, and took little to no effort for me.

Good man.

Look forward to your findings!

[Mike J. G.]

Robert does a fine job...

I'm not going to regurgitate them for you. I believe I've said this before?

There's no way to get around the fact that the writer names a pub which didn't exist. I find it funny that people who do not live in this city can just pretend as though there were pubs by that name when I've tried harder than most to actually figure out whether one did, and I've found nothing, and it ain't for a lack of trying, I can tell ya. The big giveaway is in the "e" on Poste.

It's equally hard to get around the fact that there are phrases in there which do not reflect the period.

Harder still is the handwriting issue.

And even harder still is the fact that the writer literally writes a listed item in the exact same manner as it was written a century after the fact.

So far, I've yet to see one decent explanation for any of those issues.

[Mike J. G.]

Fortunately, there is at least one surviving example of Maybrick's handwriting, that of his will dated 25 April 1889. It is two pages long, both signed by Maybrick. The signature is the same as that on his marriage certificate dated 27 July 1881 and the handwriting in the will - witnessed by two men - is the same as that used in the signatures. This handwriting is strikingly different from the diary's handwriting.

- Phillip Knightly, 1993

[Ally]

Has anyone else noticed that whenever someone says, "there's proof, but I can't be arsed to explain it to you", that basically means there's literally zero proof of what they are claiming?

Because I've noticed that.

[Mike J. G.]

Has anyone else noticed that whenever someone says, "there's proof, but I can't be arsed to explain it to you", that basically means there's literally zero proof of what they are claiming?

Because I've noticed that.

It strikes me as odd, because there are a few posters here who seem to want to claim that the diary is genuine, but refrain to do so outright. I think that anyone who was annoyed at the constant questioning of the diary would gladly offer proof for the inconsistencies. Being asked to purchase a book to find out the answers is nothing short of a standard marketing scam, imo, whether intentional or not.

If there is evidence, then provide it. There seems to be little more evidence for this being genuine as there was in 1992/1993.

A recurring pattern between then and now seems to be we have the answers, please buy the book to see them.

[Abby Normal]

Has anyone else noticed that whenever someone says, "there's proof, but I can't be arsed to explain it to you", that basically means there's literally zero proof of what they are claiming?

Because I've noticed that.

yes ive noticed that!

[Abby Normal]

Here's an interesting excerpt from an old article about the "Mussolini Diaries":

Rosa Panvini demonstrated how, by gripping a fountain pen oddly between her first and second fingers, she had been able to imitate Mussolini's handwriting and fool the experts. Her mother, Amalia, said that the ink was modern, but they had found that by baking the diaries in the kitchen oven for half an hour at low heat, the ink aged so perfectly that no scientific test could fault it.

yup Like I answered earlier we knew of that trick when we were kids for school history projects!

[Mike J. G.]

yup Like I answered earlier we knew of that trick when we were kids for school history projects!

I remember doing a pirate map, but we used tea bags to age the paper, colour-wise, and then I think we baked them, but I'm not entirely sure, or we put them by the fire.

It's just funny, because we already have examples of hoaxed diaries being aged in pretty straightforward conditions, but this one is supposed to be different somehow.

[Mike J. G.]

Has anyone read Did She Kill Him? by Kate Colquhoun. It's a pretty interesting read on the trial of Florence, and the state of legal processes of the period.

My dad was in the cells down in St. George's once many years ago, doing renovations. I'd love to see the old cells, but they're not easy to get access to. The beer festivals they hold there are excellent, though, for anyone who's not been.

[Darryl Kenyon]

According to the book Detecting forgery by Joe Nickell Page 156 - Hydrogen Peroxide and Ammonium hydroxide [ both readily available ] a document treated with either or both can artificially age the appearance of iron gall ink.

[Mike J. G.]

According to the book Detecting forgery by Joe Nickell Page 156 - Hydrogen Peroxide and Ammonium hydroxide [ both readily available ] a document treated with either or both can artificially age the appearance of iron gall ink.

Certainly, Darryl, there were many ways to create the aged effect, which makes the entire ink situation a bit of an issue.

On a semi-related note, does anyone here know whether the poster Christopher Jones is still knocking about? I believe he was located in Liverpool around 2008, is he still here? I know he's personally looked into James's association with St. Peter's church and the Palatine club on Bold street.

[Ally]

Being asked to purchase a book to find out the answers is nothing short of a standard marketing scam, imo, whether intentional or not.

If there is evidence, then provide it. There seems to be little more evidence for this being genuine as there was in 1992/1993.

A recurring pattern between then and now seems to be we have the answers, please buy the book to see them.

In some cases, I can understand this if it's a new book, and the author will of course want to maximize early sales. So offering up the "meat" of the book for free, might be something that the author or the author's mates might want to avoid purely for promotion of it.

However, considering this was a limited edition run, that's sold out, and no one who hasn't already bought a copy will be able to buy a copy, it's literally absurd for there to be any case made for someone not providing the evidence, and telling you to go buy the book, when it is quite literally impossible to do so.

Makes their claims even more weak.

[Sam Flynn]

According to the book Detecting forgery by Joe Nickell Page 156 - Hydrogen Peroxide and Ammonium hydroxide [ both readily available ] a document treated with either or both can artificially age the appearance of iron gall ink.

Mark Hofmann, the "Salamander Letter" forger, used Hydrogen Peroxide to artificially age his documents, having found out about the technique from a book he got from Utah State University Library. When subjected to McNeil's ion-migration test, the peroxide treatment was found to have thrown out the accuracy of the test from +/- 22 years to +/- 40 years. This was good enough to show that the letter was forged, of course, but not as accurate as the laboratory benchmark values when the test was carried out on "un-tampered" documents. It concerns me that the sensitivity of the ion-migration test could have been compromised to such a degree by such a simple procedure.

More details about Hofmann and his forgeries here: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trac...nfessions1.htm. Follow the links to read all six pages; it's a very interesting read, as is the book by the same author on the same subject.

[Mike J. G.]

In some cases, I can understand this if it's a new book, and the author will of course want to maximize early sales. So offering up the "meat" of the book for free, might be something that the author or the author's mates might want to avoid purely for promotion of it.

However, considering this was a limited edition run, that's sold out, and no one who hasn't already bought a copy will be able to buy a copy, it's literally absurd for there to be any case made for someone not providing the evidence, and telling you to go buy the book, when it is quite literally impossible to do so.

Makes their claims even more weak.

Exactly, it's just flat-out odd. As you say, I can understand the need to keep enough interest there so as to ensure that sales will ultimately still be made, as that's the name of the game.

But what's happening here is we're being told that our answers are all in the book, which I severely doubt, considering there's a few posters here who would jump at the chance to make any honest and concrete rebuttal known, but have yet to do so, despite claiming to have read the book.

My guess is that the book doesn't contain much at all that isn't already known to some degree. There may be more opinion and more emphasis, but what we need is answers, not opinions.

All in all, I commend Skinner for having sold yet another book on the subject, while managing to say very little in the way of new information.

No doubt someone will chime in to tell me I've not read the book as though that matters, seeing as they've read it and are AWOL in terms of answering anything problematic.

[Yabs]

Having done a quick search on television and radio archives. There has been some interesting broadcasts over the years on the Maybricks.
Mainly concerning Florence and the trial, including-

1951 (radio) Let Justice be done
"A series of programmes to illustrate cases of many kinds in the glory of the administration of justice in British courts.
The*Maybrick*Mystery
Mrs.*Maybrick*was a young American, married to a prosperous Liverpool cotton broker twenty-four years her senior. In 1889, after nine years of marriage,*Maybrick*died in suspicious circumstances and arsenic was found in the body.*
Maybrick*was in the habit of dosing himself with arsenic and other drugs. Mrs.*Maybrick*had also acquired arsenic in the form of fly-papers. The puzzle was to find how the poison got into his body. Further, it was argued that*Maybrick*did not die from arsenical poisoning at all but from gastro-enteritis. The jury found Mrs.*Maybrick*guilty. Most commentators on this case incline to the view that, on the evidence, this was a wrong verdict"

1958 (radio) Famous trials.
The Maybrick case

1965 (TV) *Jury room*
The Friendless Lady by HARRY GREEN*
"The husband dead by arsenical poisoning.... a lover ... the wife on trial for murder or adultery?"

1969 (radio) Trial for murder on Assize.
the trial of Mrs Maybrick*

Feb 1993 (tv) Age to Age.
The trial of Florence Maybrick.

June 1992. (Radio) Victorian hit man
"One hundred years ago composer*
Michael Maybrick,*writing as Stephen Adams, hit the royalty jackpot - he published The Holy City. To this day it is the most enduring of Victorian religious parlour songs. Roger Wilkes tells the story of Maybrick, the man and his music. Producer Diana Stenson"

That's the BBC only, there is no searchable archive for Itv but I know LWT in 1970 did a special as part of their Wicked Women series on the Maybricks, in which James Maybrick was very much the villain who used to hide his wife's letters and invitations from friends to keep her at home. *
it would be interesting to listen and watch these broadcasts just to hear the content.

Apologies if this is old hat.