25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Sam Flynn]

James did spend time between the US and UK offices of his company, but to say he'd suddenly start using American phrases because of this is a bit of a stretch.

And it's highly unlikely that he'd come across the word "mayhem" with any degree of frequency, if at all, in the context of the cotton trade, and certainly not often enough to incorporate the "American sense" of the word in his own casual vocabulary. Not that I discern the diary's use of "mayhem" to signify "violent or extreme disorder" anyway, if indeed that was the common American usage of the word when Maybrick ventured across the pond. Around that very time, in fact, the great Mark Twain was clearly using it to mean physical injury and violence: "This same man pantingly threatened me with permanent disfiguring mayhem" (Mark Twain, Territorial Enterprise, 1870).

In Britain, the modern sense of "rowdy confusion" or "chaos and disorder" appears to have become popular in the mid-1970s, first appearing in print as late as 1976. The following citations appear in the Oxford English Dictionary:

1976 The Economist 20 Mar. "Thus were the trade unions tacitly egged on to the inflationary mayhem in 1970-74"
1978 H. CARPENTER Inklings "He developed the ability to work at his desk in the middle of domestic mayhem"
1980 The Times 2 Sept. "There is a plentiful supply of receptions, cocktail evenings and general mayhem"
1989 Daily Express 9 Jan. "It was mayhem on the motorway, which was blocked off to allow emergency services to reach the scene"

[Mike J. G.]

There's really only one member refusing to stay on topic and posting odd insults, tbf.

Anyway, moving on...

It'd be nice to see even one sensible example of solid evidence for Maybrick having written the diary.

Something tells me there's not a great chance he'd be going back and forth between London and Liverpool during the relevant dates of the C5, which is what he'd have to have been doing if he was genuinely the Ripper, seeing as "he" had claimed the C5 were his work.

It's a long-shot, but if there's any record of James at the cricket club, for any dates reflecting the canonical events, then you've got solid evidence that it's nonsense, not that solid evidence against the hoax is what's needed. It's solid evidence for the diary being genuine that is sorely lacking.

[Monty]

As far as I am aware, no offer was made.

The pigeon didn't make it that far huh?

Monty

[Mike J. G.]

And it's highly unlikely that he'd come across the word "mayhem" with any degree of frequency, if at all, in the context of the cotton trade, and certainly not often enough to incorporate it in his own casual vocabulary. Not that I discern the diary's use of "mayhem" to signify "violent or extreme disorder" anyway, if indeed that was the common American usage of the word when Maybrick ventured across the pond. Around that very time, in fact, the great Mark Twain was clearly using it to mean physical injury and violence: "This same man pantingly threatened me with permanent disfiguring mayhem" (Mark Twain, Territorial Enterprise, 1870).

In Britain, the modern sense of "rowdy confusion" or "chaos and disorder" appears to have become popular in the mid-1970s, first appearing in print as late as 1976. The following citations appear in the Oxford English Dictionary:

1976 The Economist 20 Mar. "Thus were the trade unions tacitly egged on to the inflationary mayhem in 1970-74"
1978 H. CARPENTER Inklings "He developed the ability to work at his desk in the middle of domestic mayhem"
1980 The Times 2 Sept. "There is a plentiful supply of receptions, cocktail evenings and general mayhem"
1989 Daily Express 9 Jan. "It was mayhem on the motorway, which was blocked off to allow emergency services to reach the scene"

"Mayhem" is definitely an odd inclusion for a person of that era, in the context that it was used.

I'm sure there are a few more inconsistent wordings in there, too. It just honestly reads exactly in the manner you'd expect from a person attempting to sound Victorian.

James wasn't royalty, but he wasn't exactly common, either, not at that point in his life, anyway.

[Mike J. G.]

I've taken the time to email the cricket club, to inquire about any possible member-registers or match-listings from the year 1888.

It's a long-shot, as I said, but if there's any indication whatsoever that Maybrick was in Liverpool on the C5 dates, then he's clearly not the writer of the diary and it can be put to bed.

[Kaz]

Something tells me there's not a great chance he'd be going back and forth between London and Liverpool during the relevant dates of the C5, which is what he'd have to have been doing if he was genuinely the Ripper, seeing as "he" had claimed the C5 were his work.

All joking aside here, mike, WHAT books have you read??

IF you have read them all, may I suggest you RE-READ them...

No insults from me, just valid questions.

[Mike J. G.]

All joking aside here, mike, WHAT books have you read??

IF you have read them all, may I suggest you RE-READ them...

No insults from me, just valid questions.

If you've any evidence that James was in London on the dates of the C5 murders, then by all means, post them here.

And also, again, if you've any genuine rebuttals to any of those errors contained in the diary, post them here.

Otherwise, stop replying to me.

[Harry D]

It's a long-shot, as I said, but if there's any indication whatsoever that Maybrick was in Liverpool on the C5 dates, then he's clearly not the writer of the diary and it can be put to bed.

Oh, my sweet summer child, that won't stop them from the mental gymnastics.

[Mike J. G.]

Oh, my sweet summer child, that won't stop them from the mental gymnastics.

Too true, Harry, lol. But, if for nothing else, I'd really enjoy seeing any kind of as-of-yet unseen info on James in his more social side of life.

I've often wondered what records the cricket club has on him, as it's been there since 1806/1807, and should surely have a very interesting number of old records. It's not guaranteed that anything from 1888 has survived, but hope springs eternal, and all that jazz!

[Kaz]

Oh, my sweet summer child, that won't stop them from the mental gymnastics.

No chance, theres things that can be explained away (the four points Mike keeps addressing for example) BUT proof James was elsewhere at the time?

[Mike J. G.]

Here's an interesting excerpt from an old article about the "Mussolini Diaries":

Rosa Panvini demonstrated how, by gripping a fountain pen oddly between her first and second fingers, she had been able to imitate Mussolini's handwriting and fool the experts. Her mother, Amalia, said that the ink was modern, but they had found that by baking the diaries in the kitchen oven for half an hour at low heat, the ink aged so perfectly that no scientific test could fault it.

[Kaz]

Too true, Harry, lol. But, if for nothing else, I'd really enjoy seeing any kind of as-of-yet unseen info on James in his more social side of life.

I've often wondered what records the cricket club has on him, as it's been there since 1806/1807, and should surely have a very interesting number of old records. It's not guaranteed that anything from 1888 has survived, but hope springs eternal, and all that jazz!

IF you can get the info I'd personally like to shake your hand and make a public apology about aforementioned condition!

[Mike J. G.]

No chance, theres things that can be explained away (the four points Mike keeps addressing for example) BUT proof James was elsewhere at the time?

You keep saying that those 4 points can be explained away, yet you consistently refrain from doing it.

I have to assume that those 4 points are not so easy to dismiss, seeing as they've yet to be dismissed logically.

[Kaz]

You keep saying that those 4 points can be explained away, yet you consistently refrain from doing it.

I have to assume that those 4 points are not so easy to dismiss, seeing as they've yet to be dismissed logically.

Robert does a fine job...

I'm not going to regurgitate them for you. I believe I've said this before?

[Mike J. G.]

IF you can get the info I'd personally like to shake your hand and make a public apology about aforementioned condition!

All I can do is ask, and I've sent an email through to a person that I know works at the club, and I've used their work-email to do so.

If I get any positive response then I can walk down there and see what's what.

I've no idea what they'll have stored, or even if it's stored on site, or if anything still even exists from beyond the 1900's.

The club has been there since the early 19th century, so I'd have to assume that a lot of stuff has either been destroyed or misplaced or just plain dumped.

I'd hazard a guess that there's little chance of finding any information about a specific person and their attendance there, but it's worth a try, and took little to no effort for me.