25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Yabs]

You're kidding, right?

This just gets better and better.

So a Victorian photo album is taken from beneath floorboards in Maybrick's old bedroom in Aigburth on 9 March, and by tea time Mike from Anfield has phoned a literary agent in London because he has had 'a cunning plan' to turn it into Jack the Ripper's diary, and it's all done and dusted by 13 April. But then he makes absolutely sure that it won't have a decent provenance by denying to his dying day that it came from Maybrick's house.

Love,

Caz
X

I do think it's unlikely to be honest with you Caz.
But it is possible and that's all we need to consider.
The world is full of unlikely factual stories and the strange but true.
A Man intent on forgery seeks Victorian book, puts the feelers out for one.
After some time, aquires one, rings literary agent immediately to test the water.
I'm sure the majority of the books intended content was already in place, it just needed a suitable book with which to write and present it.
He wouldn't have said it came from Maybricks house as this would have implicated the electricians with theft.
But the bonus is, if anyone looked deep enough in regards to the books origin, their findings wouldn't sway them from the books suspect.
Could the forger have had a eureka moment and realise that he (or she) could implicate Maybrick in the murders by a bit of research and have it completed in a matter of weeks?
That's the most unlikeliest part I grant you.
But no more unlikely than the whole "One off" thing and Maybrick hiding his diary under the floorboards.
I don't understand why he would do that. If it was to ensure his journal wouldn't be found it seems unlikely he would also feel the need to remove pages from it.
If he didn't want it to be read why not just remove the pages containing his murder confession.

As I say, with regard to my original post I'm not even saying that it happened that way, I'm just saying it's no more strange than anything else concerning the diary.
For or against, it's all a bunch of unlikely scenarios with which you can just take your pick.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I'm not necessarily saying that you shouldn't trust people in a certain field, or that they have no credibility, because they do. But the whole issue is that we're not dealing with a specific piece of disputable science. Hoaxes are not something that are easily tested and either proven or dis-proven. The whole idea of a hoax is to deceive, and we see people, including notable scientists, being deceived all the time.

No matter how many times people bring up how unlikely it would be for Barrett to deceive science, we have countless examples that prove that such a thing happens more often than you'd think.

Nessie, Piltdown man, Bigfoot, Cottingley Fairies, et, etc.

People also have an odd notion about what science is about. Science is not about disproving things, and I don't understand anyone who makes such a claim. Science is about proving things using verifiable and tested methods, and so far, nobody has proven that the diary was even written in the 1880's, never mind that it was written by Maybrick, nor that Maybrick was the Ripper.

If science were about disproving things, it'd still be stuck trying to dis-prove leprechauns.

I take your points Mike.

But in any attempt to 'prove' that the diary could have been written in 1888/9 any test would have to show that there were no components in the paper or ink that would disprove it. So it's difficult to dismiss offhand, say, the tests that were done in 2005 at Staffordshire University which concluded 'The optical examination reveals no characteristics that are inconsistent with a diary written in the 1880's'. I just find facts like these hard to square with the phrase 'amateurish.' Now I know absolutely nothing about the relevant science involved. I can't say that this 'proves' anything. All I'm saying is that I can't dismiss it,unless a scientist comes along and tells me there's a reason to do so.
I wish that we knew a document forger who could tell us how easy it is to 'create' a Victorian document that 'fools' a load of scientists. Maybe it is easy? But until someone can come on here and say ' yeah, piece of cake. There's even a video on YouTube showing you how it's done,' I personally can't dismiss it, yet.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Maybrick was the International Man of Coincidence.

He originated a few well-known phrases, drank in pubs before they came to be, was the world's most elusive killer, a successful cotton-merchant, wrote in two entirely different styles, rhymed, versed, and he was also poisoned in a well-known and much publicized case that also saw another first with Flo' being sentenced at St. George's Hall.

I'd not be a bit surprised to learn that Maybrick also invented the common net for a goal in football, instead of John Brodie.

I know that you haven't read the new book Mike, and it's true that things can't always be explained conclusively, but about the pub.

And I'm just repeating Robert Smith here.

He looked at loads of Victorian dictionaries and found that 'post office' and 'post house' were synonyms (but I think we all already knew that any house/building that accepted and distributed mail tended to be called post houses.) There was a pub called The Post Office Tavern which adjoined the GPO very near to the Maybrick family home. It can't be impossible that this pub could have been known as The Post House (especially to someone whose family lived pretty much next door to it.) Yes the diary writer spelt it 'poste' but apparently he misspells post 4 times, for eg using 'poste haste' rather than 'post haste.'
Now, obviously this isn't conclusive proof but it's a reasonable/possible explaination.

[c.d.]

It was Paul Dodd who wanted the work done on his property, if that helps, c.d.

Love,

Caz
X

Thanks, Caz

I should really know better than to venture into diary world. My point was that even if the diary was found under the floorboards it doesn't necessarily follow that it was put there by Maybrick. So I was trying to determine if the person requesting the work had any ulterior motive for doing so.

I don't know who Paul Dodd is and if he has any dog in the fight. Any connection here?

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

It can't be impossible that this pub could have been known as The Post House (especially to someone whose family lived pretty much next door to it.) Yes the diary writer spelt it 'poste' but apparently he misspells post 4 times, for eg using 'poste haste' rather than 'post haste.'
Now, obviously this isn't conclusive proof but it's a reasonable/possible explaination.

"Ye olde countrye fayre" and similar are often seen, but inauthentic. Some ill-informed people seem to think that adding an "e" to a word confers a stamp of historicity.

[Abby Normal]

There once was a man named Barrett
Who's nose was as long as a ferret
He said I found Jack!
Then took it all back
And flew off on the wings of a parrot.

[Kaz]

There once was a man named Barrett
Who's nose was as long as a ferret
He said I found Jack!
Then took it all back
And flew off on the wings of a parrot.

This is in bad taste, besmirching a mans name who's only real crime was wanting enough cash for a greenhouse and 'confession' was clearly only to get back at anne...

Ok, he was no saint but he's not long cold so lets reign things in alittle here

[Henry Flower]

This is in bad taste, besmirching a mans name who's only real crime was wanting enough cash for a greenhouse and 'confession' was clearly only to get back at anne...

Ok, he was no saint but he's not long cold so lets reign things in alittle here

Hey Kaz, who made you school prefect?

[Kaz]

Hey Kaz, who made you school prefect?

Hey, Henry, I Never professed to be..

but theres lines that shouldn't be crossed, especially when its all about getting cheap laughs and virtual pats on the back? no?

[Herlock Sholmes]

"Ye olde countrye fayre" and similar are often seen, but inauthentic. Some ill-informed people seem to think that adding an "e" to a word confers a stamp of historicity.

Or perhaps Maybrick was just a poor speller as he added an 'e' to the word 'post' even when it couldn't be construed as an attempt at making something seem historical

[Henry Flower]

Hey, Henry, I Never professed to be..

but theres lines that shouldn't be crossed, especially when its all about getting cheap laughs and virtual pats on the back? no?

No.

You don't get to draw lines for others. Draw them for yourself, no problem.

[Kaz]

No.

You don't get to draw lines for others. Draw them for yourself, no problem.

Who made you school prefect?

Some people have no class and need reminding.. thats all I have to say on the matter.

[Harry D]

Anachronisms, basic errors, dodgy provenance and confessions aren't enough for some people. They just want to belieeeeeeve!

[Abby Normal]

This is in bad taste, besmirching a mans name who's only real crime was wanting enough cash for a greenhouse and 'confession' was clearly only to get back at anne...

Ok, he was no saint but he's not long cold so lets reign things in alittle here

Your kidding right?

Oh the irony.

[caz]

but what are you saying here Caz? the diary came out of Battlecrease House in its complete form?

Hi Abby,

How else do you imagine it could have come out, given that it arrived in London 'in its complete form' on 13 April?

It bemuses me how some people are suggesting the time would be too tight for anyone to get word to Mike about 'the' diary on 9 March and for him to make a couple of exploratory phone calls the same day to test the waters.

Yet the time would not apparently be too tight for word to get to Mike on 9 March about some old scrapbook with blank pages being found under floorboards; for Mike then to devise a cunning plan, based on those floorboards being in the former bedroom of James Maybrick, in the house once called Battlecrease, to frame him as Jack the Ripper by faking his diary using the blank pages; then to obtain all the materials and books needed to execute that plan; and finally to take the finished product to London on 13 April?

And not one of the electricians was willing to say that Mike had turned this worthless old book, which had been 'liberated' from the house, into a serial killer's diary and made a shed load [or greenhouse load] of money out of it in the process?

Love,

Caz
X