25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[GUT]

So an electrician gave it to him?
Deveraux gave it to him?
Anne's family had it for years and she gave it to Deveraux to give him?
He forged it?
He didn't forge it?

You pays your money you takes your pick.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've been at a boring party all night (only 2 pints by the way) where I've been thinking about Barrett, diary, electricians etc. Yes, that's how boring the party was!

I just like to hear thoughts.

I understand that many are suspicious of the alleged speed that the diary was passed along the chain from electricians to Mike Barrett. What do you all think about the connection from Barrett to the electricians?

Barrett has the diary on the 9th of March. The electricians were in Maybrick's room lifting floorboards on the same day.

Is it likely that Barrett forges a diary and then just happens to find an electrictrician that has worked in Maybrick's room to help explain its origins?

If Barrett already knew an electrician, which appears to be true, is anyone saying that this electrician gave Mike the idea for the subject of his forgery? Because surely that electrician wouldn't have known far enough in-hand that he would be working in Maybrick's room to allow Barrett time for the forgery?

Again I'm not being pro or anti here I'm just wondering how everyone here interprets events? I fully accept that I could have missed something especially after the appalling music that I've been subjected to tonight

[Mike J. G.]

Pity the floorboards hadn't been pulled up then, or the diary would have been found earlier

lol, not half! It'd be nice to know to what extent any work was performed at the house prior to 1992 by P&R, and to know who was the one contracted to work there. It's really baffling that Robinson chose to not venture into that.

If it could be established that Rigby or any of the three had worked there before, it'd be an interesting detail, considering how Rigby lived on the same street as Devereux and drank at the Saddle where Barrett drank.

[Mike J. G.]

An interesting thing that people who visit the house may not know, is that the chemist round the corner is, IIRC, one of the chemist's that was frequented by Florence, when buying the fly-paper, and also, IIRC, the Kingsman pub was once the hotel in which one of the inquest's took place.

Also of interest is St. Mary's church, a short walk from Riversdale towards Garston, where the first part of the service for Fletcher Rogers' funeral took place. Rogers was Maybrick's friend, a fellow cotton merchant, and was on the jury at Florence's trial, he took over Battlecrease immediately after James's death.

[Sam Flynn]

There were renovations in the 60's as well, IIRC, by Dodd's father, when the house was initially turned into flats.

Pity the floorboards hadn't been pulled up then, or the diary would have been found earlier

[Mike J. G.]

Can't remember exactly where right now, but I'm 99% sure I read something in the last 2 weeks which said that P&R were Dodds' regular electricians and they worked in Battlecrease on a number of occasions.

That's interesting, and it kind of rings true enough, seeing as the company had been based a mere 10 minutes away and had been in business for a long time. There were renovations in the 60's as well, IIRC, by Dodd's father, when the house was initially turned into flats.

I'd be interested to know whether Rigby had worked there before at any point.

[Mike J. G.]

May 3, 1889

Ah. Cheers.

[Mike J. G.]

Paul Dodd did say, as I noted earlier, that not many floor-boards were lifted at the time of the work in question.

Does anyone know if Paul Dodd still lives at the property? IIRC at one time he was living next door, the actual building comprising two large semi-detached properties. Was he interviewed for the new Smith book?

Years ago when I was in Liverpool on business I took time out to visit Battlecrease, and couldn't believe the number of camera-pointing people milling around outside, including a good number of Japanese.

Graham

AFAIK, I think his personal flat may have been turned over to other people, which would make sense if the story re: the girl staying in "JtR's" bedroom is to be believed. I'm not sure if Dodd has moved from the house entirely or not.

There tends to be quite a few people around the house from time-to-time. I think the Magical Mystery bus pops past there as an aside, but I'm not certain, although it does follow the route nicely from Woolton down to Aigburth and into town.

[StevenOwl]

Hmmm, I wonder if the fact that he mentioned 1989 is a sign that there actually was more than just one occasion when P&R were called in by Dodd? As I've said, it'd make sense that Dodd would use a local contracting firm, and there's none more local for Dodd during that period than P&R.

Can't remember exactly where right now, but I'm 99% sure I read something in the last 2 weeks which said that P&R were Dodds' regular electricians and they worked in Battlecrease on a number of occasions.

[Hunter]

Do we know when the actual date/time for the diary is supposed to have been completed? IIRC, it is being updated as he goes, but I can't recall when the last entry is supposed to have taken place. It could be argued that he wasn't that ill in 1888 as he was during most of 1889, and even then, he still managed to attend the National in 1889 and had enough vigour to argue with Flo there.

May 3, 1889

[Graham]

15 floorboard protectors isn't an awful lot, which suggests the work going on wasn't very far-reaching, and that it was likely one or two rooms at a time (if they're reusing the protectors) or merely just a couple of rooms in total.

Paul Dodd did say, as I noted earlier, that not many floor-boards were lifted at the time of the work in question.

Does anyone know if Paul Dodd still lives at the property? IIRC at one time he was living next door, the actual building comprising two large semi-detached properties. Was he interviewed for the new Smith book?

Years ago when I was in Liverpool on business I took time out to visit Battlecrease, and couldn't believe the number of camera-pointing people milling around outside, including a good number of Japanese.

Graham

[Mike J. G.]

I remember seeing that Bigfoot footage as a kid, and man was it cool.
Ahhh the magic and mystery and wonder of childhood! : )

I've a real soft spot for that film, lol. The story behind it is very very interesting, and I'd suggest for anyone to look into it, as it's a great piece of American pop-culture, and an amazing look into the makings of a hoax.

A "simple cowboy" who was stricken with cancer, pulling off a hoax that fooled many FX people, Disney animators and prominent scientists, and yet we're being told that nobody simple could've written the diary...

[Abby Normal]

The story about the diary being found at the house is very questionable, indeed.

I think that it was decided that a better backstory would have to be that it came from the house itself. And the only way you could account for it being in the house but having not been found for such a long time, is to claim it came from the house itself, but somewhere nowhere would've looked, under the floor.

IIRC, when it all came about, a lot of talk in the press was circling around the question of where the hell's it been all this time? It being beneath the floor is a solid way to answer that, and a solid way to put it's origin at Battlecrease.

Putting the diary at the house of Maybrick adds meat to the bones of the story about it actually being his diary.

When people involved in hoaxes are changing the stories about origin and provenance, it shows that a solid backstory has not yet been decided upon, and is still being fleshed out.

When the most believable and satisfying account has been reached, it is usually then that the hoaxers settle on it and go with it as being the actual backstory.

I think these changing versions of events are clear evidence of people changing and adapting their story to fit the questions and queries being thrown at them, some of which they may not have expected.

To bring up the Patterson Film hoax again, the story changed many times, and each man had a differing version of events, which seemed to change with time, as each of them got their individual accounts and merged them to a more suitable story. The timeline didn't add up, and this was changed, too, to fit the questions being asked.

Hoaxes generally play out in very similar ways, and the diary hoax doesn't seem to be any different in that regard.

I remember seeing that Bigfoot footage as a kid, and man was it cool.
Ahhh the magic and mystery and wonder of childhood! : )

[Mike J. G.]

I don't fully understand the bill of materials for the 10th March 1992 (when Rigby worked his 8 hour shift), but it does mention "15 floor board protectors", whatever they are. The rest of the B.O.M. appears almost exclusively to be made up of cables/wires, switches and other electrical paraphernalia.

To the best of my knowledge, floorboard-protectors are used to protect the floors during renovation work, and aren't used in the lifting of the floor. So, if you have some heavy work going on, and an expensive floor, you're going to need to place them down to prevent damage.

15 floorboard protectors isn't an awful lot, which suggests the work going on wasn't very far-reaching, and that it was likely one or two rooms at a time (if they're reusing the protectors) or merely just a couple of rooms in total.

It seems the skirting boards would be the likely area of work, if electric work was being done, and work involving the heating, so it is feasible that some boards may have to have been lifted.

[Mike J. G.]

The Battlecrease provenance is starting to sound so shonky and unreliable I wonder how long it'll be before Diary proponents strategically decide it's a pack of lies and start championing the excellent and confidence-inspiring "an old friend gave it to Barrett in a pub" story.

The story about the diary being found at the house is very questionable, indeed.

I think that it was decided that a better backstory would have to be that it came from the house itself. And the only way you could account for it being in the house but having not been found for such a long time, is to claim it came from the house itself, but somewhere nowhere would've looked, under the floor.

IIRC, when it all came about, a lot of talk in the press was circling around the question of where the hell's it been all this time? It being beneath the floor is a solid way to answer that, and a solid way to put it's origin at Battlecrease.

Putting the diary at the house of Maybrick adds meat to the bones of the story about it actually being his diary.

When people involved in hoaxes are changing the stories about origin and provenance, it shows that a solid backstory has not yet been decided upon, and is still being fleshed out.

When the most believable and satisfying account has been reached, it is usually then that the hoaxers settle on it and go with it as being the actual backstory.

I think these changing versions of events are clear evidence of people changing and adapting their story to fit the questions and queries being thrown at them, some of which they may not have expected.

To bring up the Patterson Film hoax again, the story changed many times, and each man had a differing version of events, which seemed to change with time, as each of them got their individual accounts and merged them to a more suitable story. The timeline didn't add up, and this was changed, too, to fit the questions being asked.

Hoaxes generally play out in very similar ways, and the diary hoax doesn't seem to be any different in that regard.