25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Kaz]

While I appreciate that you must be frustrated that your little pinkmoon bait didn't work - and was, in fact, a fiasco - there's no need to take it out on me.

I didn't raise his name to bait you.

Just looked in my inbox and found his claim to have 'met' mike in person, this pm was from 4+ years ago.

you don't believe a word he says. so move on.

[caz]

In your original post you used the singular, "the counting rhyme". I thought you were referring to the "Eight Little Whores" rhyme. And no, I'm not that ignorant to believe in a million years that McCormick invented counting rhymes.

Yes, I meant 'the counting rhyme' as a genre of poetry or song, Observer. Apologies for not making that clearer.

I'm really pleased to see that you didn't actually believe McCormick was the first to come up with the idea. A hoaxer would have had no trouble coming up with their own version independently and at any time from 1889 onwards.

Love,

Caz
X

[Kaz]

Now, for just answering back, I have become a "naysayer" back on the Mike Barrett "hoaxer bandwagon" who is "clambering on for real life" (and i think you might mean "dear life").

Erm, David, you have a warped view of what I said...

I SAID "dear life". it was you who said "real life".

[caz]

Everyone seems to ignore it but Melvin Harris has set out, very convincingly in my view, the sources the forger used in his article "The Maybrick Hoax: A Guide Through the Labyrinth". He identifies Peter Underwood's 1987 book "Jack the Ripper " as a key source. What does Underwood say about the farthings?

Harris tells us:

Und p9.. lists: "...two brass rings (presumably wrenched from the victims fingers) .. .a couple of farthings.. .two medicinal pills..."

Did Melvin include the reliable source the hoaxer used for Michael Maybrick writing lyrics as well as music?

Did he include the less reliable source for the Grand National info?

Did he include the unreliable source for Kelly's breasts being on the table, and also the reliable source for one of them being by her foot?

Did he include the source of the Crashaw quote?

That's at least five books so far, if all these sources were different.

If Melvin really did know the sources the hoaxer used - every last one of them - it strikes me he must be the prime suspect.

If he didn't really know how many sources were used, or which ones, and underestimated the number, he is off the hook and was only human after all. But then his expertise on the subject would be in question, wouldn't it?

Is there an alternative?

Love,

Caz
X

[David Orsam]

As I posted on another thread, one of the false facts that has been mentioned in connection with the diary is that a forger could not have known that Maybrick wrote lyrics. But this information was contained in Nigel Moreland's 1957 book (i.e. page 7 refers to "the strong religious and moral nature of his lyrics").

My posts are always worth repeating.

[Henry Flower]

Did Melvin include the reliable source the hoaxer used for Michael Maybrick writing lyrics as well as music?

Did he include the less reliable source for the Grand National info?

Did he include the unreliable source for Kelly's breasts being on the table, and also the reliable source for one of them being by her foot?

Did he include the source of the Crashaw quote?

That's at least five books so far, if all these sources were different.

If Melvin really did know the sources the hoaxer used - every last one of them - it strikes me he must be the prime suspect.

If he didn't really know how many sources were used, or which ones, and underestimated the number, he is off the hook and was only human after all. But then his expertise on the subject would be in question, wouldn't it?

Is there an alternative?

Love,

Caz
X

Caz, love you as I do, it strikes me this is a rather Manichean way of looking at things. So either Mel must be able to name a source for every single detail in the Diary or else we must say his expertise is in doubt?

I learned a lot about the Diary from reading Melvin Harris. No doubt there were parts of it that were either erroneous or downright false. But it was written with such venom, and it confirmed my own bitter prejudices to such a pleasing extent that I refuse to hold any of that against him.

EDIT - I know I should've written "either Mel should've been able to name" but sometimes the past tense is such a drag.

[David Orsam]

Grand National info could be found in just about any book published in the 20th century about the Grand National - they almost all contained a list of historical times of past races. With Mike Barrett being in Liverpool I doubt books on the Grand National were hard to find.

Feldman's claim that this information was so rare his research assistant only discovered it by a miracle is nonsense. She only had to pick up a decent book about the Grand National and she would have found it very easily.

[David Orsam]

Melvin Harris: "...when the diary says I cut off the breasts... left them on the table with some other stuff.." it is merely echoing Und p75 "...he cut off her breasts" and Und p25 "..on a table by the bed were the little piles of flesh, the breasts...and other parts of her body..."

[David Orsam]

The first person to reveal a source for the Crawshaw quote was Mike Barrett himself. Quite an achievement for an incompetent and incapable person.

[Kaz]

The first person to reveal a source for the Crawshaw quote was Mike Barrett himself. Quite an achievement for an incompetent and incapable person.

Well, in fairness he was one of the first people to be 'looking'.

and considering, in your opinion, the rest are incompetent... not such a great feat?

[David Orsam]

Well, in fairness he was one of the first people to be 'looking'.

I think you'll find that is not true, unless by "one of" you mean "one of many".

and considering, in your opinion, the rest are incompetent... not such a great feat?

Please don't misrepresent my views. I have never offered any such opinion.

[Kaz]

The first person to reveal a source for the Crawshaw quote was Mike Barrett himself. Quite an achievement for an incompetent and incapable person.

How do you go about 'proving' Mike was the hoaxer?

The man himself couldn't prove he was when he had ample opportunity, when he had his 'confession' head on and was singing like a bird..

[David Orsam]

How do you go about 'proving' Mike was the hoaxer?

The man himself couldn't prove he was when he had ample opportunity, when he had his 'confession' head on and was singing like a bird..

I don't know why you think I need to prove anything.

And I'm not aware that Mike's confession that he made in a sworn affidavit has been disproved.

[Kaz]

I don't know why you think I need to prove anything.

And I'm not aware that Mike's confession that he made in a sworn affidavit has been disproved.

Ok, Gotcha.

For a moment there I thought you were being serious about mike being the hoaxer

[Henry Flower]

I don't know why you think I need to prove anything.

And I'm not aware that Mike's confession that he made in a sworn affidavit has been disproved.

It seems that the same people who rake you over the coals if you say that the Diary has been proven a forgery are happy to sail along simply repeating that MB's confession has been proven to be wholly false.

It occurs to me - in one of those increasingly rare moments of clarity - that a document that isn't a forgery simply should not be having this many lies told about it.