25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith

[Kaz]

I've always wondered why Tony Devereaux was introduced into the scenario. Surely Barrett would have known that his (the Devereaux) family would have been grilled about the provenance? Why didn't he just say ' I bought it from a bloke in the pub that I'd never seen before?' Less complicated for sure.

Mike's wife stands by the claims she gave it to tony.

Its been in her family for as long as she can remember. She didn't want to be linked to the diary.

If this new book proves 100% it came out of battle crease house it does prove her to be lying though

[Observer]

Hello Observer,

Indeed. I totally agree. Which is why anything, imho, McCormick linked to the Diary should cause suspicion upon both. Imho.


Phil

Hi Phil

Indeed

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mike's wife stands by the claims she gave it to tony.

Its been in her family for as long as she can remember. She didn't want to be linked to the diary.

If this new book proves 100% it came out of battle crease house it does prove her to be lying though

It does. Perhaps that was why her dad appeared not too keen to be grilled on the subject?

[Kaz]

It does. Perhaps that was why her dad appeared not too keen to be grilled on the subject?

Its been awhile since I've read Feldmans book (its arduous to say the least..)

[Observer]

The sleeper awakens...Enter phantom stage left

Hi all

Interesting posts.

While McCormick's book is certainly dodgy in many ways, I don't think the "Seven Little Whores" poem is necessarily a smoking gun re: the possibility that the Diary is a hoax.

It could be just a coincidence that the diary entry and McCormick's published poem is similar.

"Ten bottles of beer" is a very old English song predating 1888 and has been the inspiration behind many rhymes and songs. A variation "Ten Little Indians" was written in 1869.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=19006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians 1869

Of course, that's it mere coincidence. Damn! Back to square one.

This is like the Maybrick watch, I knew it would come along. See post 225 in this thread.

Possibly of more concern is that the author of the diary references Heneage Court i.e. PC Spicer's arrest of a Doctor, which I believe from memory is also referenced in McCormick's book in the form of a poem allegedly written by JTR - but I will have to check this tonight.

Cheers.

No that's not correct Phantom, (I should be a one to talk) the author of the Diary/Journal wrote only this

One whore in heaven
two whores side by side
three whores all have died
four

What I did spot, and I don't know if it's significant, is that the author of the "Eight Little Whores" poem failed to spell Heneage Court correctly, he spelling it Henage Court. There is also a Heneage Lane within spitting distance of Mitre Square.

[Observer]

Have you read Paul Feldmans book?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper...james+maybrick

Yes I have. It was quite a neat trick don't you think that he published a photo of Michael Maybrick in lieu of James Maybrick, in order to fit the photograph with a drawing of a suspect which appeared in a newspaper I believe in 1888

Mike couldn't prove he wrote the diary. He was asked to do so and failed miserably. The guy (RIP) was having a nervous breakdown and drinking like a fish.

Did I say he wrote it? I'm sorry if I misled you. He wasn't naive enough to have actually written the thing, nor was his wife. I have a good idea of who actually wrote the Journal, but moral decency forbids me from offering my thoughts on the matter.

But remember, Coleridge wrote Kubla Khan while under the influence of drink, and drugs. I've heard Dudley D Watkins like to have a drop of the hard stuff whilst doing his "Mickey The Monkey" cartoons. Although Watkins was a devout Christian, so in all probability this is an urban myth. I suppose in literary ability Mike Barrett comes some way between the two, all in all though he was capable of composing the diary.

There really is no point in talking to you, you have a closed mind and I for one won't be reading anymore of your posts on the subject

I'm sorry to hear that, however, join the queue.

[Kaz]

Did I say he wrote it? I'm sorry if I misled you. He wasn't naive enough to have actually written the thing, nor was his wife. I have a good idea of who actually wrote the Journal, but moral decency forbids me from offering my thoughts on the matter.

[Sam Flynn]

"Ten bottles of beer" is a very old English song predating 1888 and has been the inspiration behind many rhymes and songs. A variation "Ten Little Indians" was written in 1869.

As I've previously suggested, Ten Little Indians was made hugely popular in the 20th Century, first by Agatha Christie in 1939, and in subsequent glitzy film adaptations of her novel. There were at least three that were made before the Diary was published:

And Then There Were None (USA 1945), directed by René Clair, released in the UK as Ten Little Indians

And Then There Were None (UK 1974), one of those "all-star extravaganzas" of the 1970s, with Richard Attenborough, Oliver Reed, Elke Sommer, Herbert Lom, Gert Fröbe and Charles Aznavour. As a bonus, it also featured the voice of Orson Welles, no less!

Ten Little Indians (UK 1989), starring Donald Pleasence, Herbert Lom, Brenda Vaccaro and Moira Lister

It might be interesting to find out whether, and when, the first two films were aired on British TV. When I were a lad, Agatha Christie films seemed to be on television rather frequently and, of course, could be rented, borrowed or bought on VHS tape in latter years.

[Robert]

Gareth, didn't Agatha call them something unmentionable in the first edition?

I read the book around 1970 - Fonatana paperback bought in some shop or other, and it was still called Ten Little ******* then.

[Sam Flynn]

Gareth, didn't Agatha call them something unmentionable in the first edition?

Indeed, Robert: Ten Little Politicians

[caz]

And may Chelsea beat the you-know-what out of Leicester tomorrow!

Chelsea lost to Burnley. Got that one doubly wrong.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Caz,

Colin Ireland is obviouly an excellent example of a commuter killer who focussed on one particular area. Similarly, if a suspect from outside of the area, who had access to transport, had a particular association with Whitechapel- such as they used to live there; relatives lived their; they worked there; they were known to frequent a particular pub-that I could understand (although parts of Whitechapel were such a maze I feel sure the killer must have had some local knowledge.) However, neither Maybrick or Bury had any such known associations.

Hi John,

I don't know if Colin Ireland had any previous association with Fulham or that particular pub, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I suspect whoever authored the diary knew about Maybrick's East End associations though, and figured that was near enough.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Of course, the point is not about Holocaust denial at all, I could have said 9/11 conspiracy theories, or the one-time obsession with Barack Obama's place of birth or any number of false arguments that have just gone on and on. Holocaust denial is nothing more than a good illustration that we can all agree on.

It's a terrible one, David. Just about the very worst subject anyone with an ounce of sensitivity would think appropriate to bring up here and then describe as a 'good illustration'.

Whoever wrote the diary was not the devil incarnate, David. He was just a very naughty boy. Or if you prefer, she was just a very naughty girl.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

What is fact is that there is a section in the Diary/Journal which goes like this

One whore in heaven
two whores side by side
three whores all have died
four


The hoaxer err the Diarist also wrote

"It shall come, if Michael can succeed in rhyming verse then I can do better, a great deal better he shall not outdo me"

The above is an obvious attempt to mimic the "Eight Little Whores" poem. It is my contention that the hoaxer used McCormicks book to pen the attempt at the verse above.

Er, how are those lines from the diary 'an obvious attempt to mimic the "Eight Little Whores" poem', Observer? I do hope you are not trusting Paul Feldman for this piece of nonsensical reasoning. Even Melvin Harris was suckered in by Feldy on this one because it suited his purpose.

Could you quote the lines from the latter which you can see reflected in the former?

For starters, the diary author is counting up from one and only manages to describe three, while the poem in question counts down from eight.

At least the Three Little Maids from School from The Mikado go in the right direction, feature the numbers one to three, and can be compared easily and directly to the diary lines via the following part of the famous G&L song, being performed to a packed house in 1888:

One little maid is a bride, Yum Yum,
Two little maids in attendance come.
Three little maids is the total sum...

One whore in heaven
two whores side by side
three whores all have died
four

The alternative is that Maybrick penned and sent the poem to the police in a letter. Yeah right.

Why on earth do you see that as the alternative?

Love,

Caz
X

[David Orsam]

Just musing on how, since I posted the Holocaust denial example, no-one has repeated the terrible argument that just because the Diary is still being talked about that supports the notion that it is genuine or old. Man, that Holocaust denial parallel must have been very effective. An excellent illustration I think. Doubt if there is one better.