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Acquiring A Victorian Diary

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  • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
    Hi Ike,

    How do you think the diary got under the floorboards?

    Regards,

    Simon
    I can't be overly specific about this, Simon, but I would hazard a guess that one or more of the floorboards were relatively-easily lifted. It's impossible to say either way, so given that it is impossible to say, it is impossible to say that they could not be lifted and done so relatively quickly and quietly.

    This would not be my principal focus if I were seeking to show that James Maybrick could not have written the journal and left it under the floorboards, I must say.
    Iconoclast
    Soldier of Fortune, Man of Peace, Destroyer of Images, Nice Guy, Genius

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
      Hi John,

      You don't sound too convinced.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Hi Simon

      I'm not remotely convinced.

      Cheers John

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Hi Iconoclast,

        So Maybrick signed the diary, got up from his sick bed, fetched a claw hammer, tore nails out of a floorboard, prised it up, secreted the diary [biscuit tin optional], hammered the floorboard back into place without attracting any attention, and then returned to his sick bed to die?

        Have I got this scenario vaguely correct?

        Regards,

        Simon
        Simon I love you
        Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

        Comment


        • research fees

          Silence on my research fees question from before
          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

          Comment


          • There is something almost artful about this whole omnishambles it is in fact the classic move of a bunch of southern softies getting marked by a couple of scally scousers playing dumb.

            My opinion is all I have to offer here,

            Dave.

            Smilies are canned laughter.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by James_J View Post
              Evening all - just passing this along from KS. If I may be allowed to add a little something - the electrician which Feldman eventually accused of removing the diary (E.L) was not employed at Portus & Rhodes until November 1991 - making the date of 1988/89 all the more confusing.


              TO OBSERVER

              Thank you for your two questions in #967.

              Paul Feldmanís first visit to Liverpool, (accompanied by Martin Howells and Paul Begg), occurred in February 1993. This was when they met Mike Barrett for the first time - had lunch Ė and then all went together to visit Battlecrease House. I agree the sequence of events is a bit unclear in Paul Feldmanís book.

              I imagine the reason we are now discussing the installation of storage heaters in March 1992, is because we have a March 1992 timesheet showing the preparatory work for two storage heaters to be installed in Paul Doddís living room, (the room which, in 1889, was James Maybrickís), later on that summer. It is the first hard piece of evidence we have relating to the installation of storage heaters. Now, quite why Mr Dodd informed Paul that work was carried out in 1988/89 to install the storage heaters, I donít know. Perhaps other storage heaters were installed during that period? I wasnít part of that initial investigation and only started looking at and revisiting it myself in 2004. It is, however, something we are currently trying to clarify and resolve with Mr Doddís full co-operation. Certainly the 1988/89 date was welded into Paulís mind and this is what triggered off his investigation into the electricians.

              Best Wishes

              Keith
              Thanks for that Mr Skinner

              Yes, I assumed (seeing that Paul Begg, and Martin Howells were not mentioned in the book as visiting Battlecrease House) that Feldman and Barrett had possibly visited Battlecrease House on a subsequent visit, that is after the February 1993 visit.

              I am aware that a timesheet exists for the installation of storage heaters dating to March 1992. However, Mr Dodds initial recollection of events, that is, the installation of storage heaters in 1988/9 strikes me as a little strange.

              Lets face it, if storage heaters were fitted once only, then he's out in his recollection by over two years.

              As you say perhaps there was work done in 1988/9 which involved the lifting of floorboards. We now have to ask the question ( if this is the case) why was nothing found under the floorboards during that time?

              Mr Dodds surely holds the key, I'd be interested to know what his final words are on the matter.

              Another thing which struck my mind is this. In February 1993 Paul Feldman apparently accepted the story that the Diary had been given to Mike Barrett by Tony Devereux. What prompted Paul Feldman, during his visit to Battlecrease House, to ask Mr Dodds if there had been any work carried out in the house in the recent past? A shot in the dark perhaps? Lateral thinking? Prior knowledge?

              Regards

              Observer

              Comment


              • Originally posted by John G View Post
                According to Shirley Harrison's book, Paul Dodd told her that the storage heaters were installed in two phases: in Maybrick's bedroom in the late summer of 1991 and the downstairs flat in 1993.
                More confusion. However, hard to explain his initial recollection of storage heater being installed in 1988/9. The late summer of 1991 for the storage heaters being installed in Maybrick's bedroom is interesting though. I'm surprised it hasn't been jumped upon by the pro Battlecrease provenance devotees. It begs the question though, should anything have been found at that time, of it's whereabouts between late summer 1991, and March 1992. Are there any timesheets relating to work being done in Maybrick's bedroom in late summer 1991 I wonder? Apparently timesheets for March 1992 exist.Why not late summer 1991?
                Last edited by Observer; 02-14-2018, 10:43 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                  More confusion. However, hard to explain his initial recollection of storage heater being installed in 1988/9. The late summer of 1991 for the storage heaters being installed in Maybrick's bedroom is interesting though. I'm surprised it hasn't been jumped upon by the pro Battlecrease provenance devotees. It begs the question though of it whereabouts between late summer 1991, and March 1992. Are there any timesheets relating to work being done in Maybrick's bedroom in late summer 1991 I wonder? Apparently timesheets for March 1992 exist.Why not late summer 1991?
                  Yes, the conflicting dates that have been given for the installation of the storage heaters is confusing to say the least. Here's a link to Shirley's book, where the relevant issue is discussed: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...icians&f=false

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by John G View Post
                    Yes, the conflicting dates that have been given for the installation of the storage heaters is confusing to say the least. Here's a link to Shirley's book, where the relevant issue is discussed: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...icians&f=false
                    Thanks for that I don't have that book.

                    Comment


                    • Yes, this story has been discussed at length, Davies, Rhodes, et al earlier in one of the Maybrick threads.

                      Of course the following was commented on at length, it puts everything into perspective if true.

                      "Paul was adamant. The house was originally gaslit and converted to electricity in the 1920's. It was re-wired when his father bought it in 1946, and again in 1977, when paul himself had gutted the place, and lifted the floorboards. Had anything been hidden, he was sure he would have found it then.

                      The electricians are still denying having found the Diary apparently. The currant position for the Battkecrease provenance seems to hinge on the March 9th 1992 timesheet. Who was responsible for making out the timesheet I wonder?

                      Comment


                      • Presumably Mr Dodd has always been aware of the connection between Battlecrease House, and the Maybrick case.

                        If so, it would be interesting to know if he ever let it be known to any of the workman he employed over the years that the Maybrick mystery had unfolded under the roof of his property
                        Last edited by Observer; 02-14-2018, 11:39 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Observer View Post
                          Thanks for that Mr Skinner

                          Yes, I assumed (seeing that Paul Begg, and Martin Howells were not mentioned in the book as visiting Battlecrease House) that Feldman and Barrett had possibly visited Battlecrease House on a subsequent visit, that is after the February 1993 visit.

                          I am aware that a timesheet exists for the installation of storage heaters dating to March 1992. However, Mr Dodds initial recollection of events, that is, the installation of storage heaters in 1988/9 strikes me as a little strange.

                          Lets face it, if storage heaters were fitted once only, then he's out in his recollection by over two years.

                          As you say perhaps there was work done in 1988/9 which involved the lifting of floorboards. We now have to ask the question ( if this is the case) why was nothing found under the floorboards during that time?

                          Mr Dodds surely holds the key, I'd be interested to know what his final words are on the matter.

                          Another thing which struck my mind is this. In February 1993 Paul Feldman apparently accepted the story that the Diary had been given to Mike Barrett by Tony Devereux. What prompted Paul Feldman, during his visit to Battlecrease House, to ask Mr Dodds if there had been any work carried out in the house in the recent past? A shot in the dark perhaps? Lateral thinking? Prior knowledge?

                          Regards

                          Observer
                          Mr Dodds by all accounts is decent chap and has always stated that there was no way that diary could have come out of battlecrease without his knowledge.
                          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                          Comment


                          • Evening all,

                            Just passing this along from KS.


                            TO OBSERVER


                            Thank you for your series of posts. All very reasonable and understandable questions and you join myself, Caroline, James and others in not knowing the answers. We are as confused as you as to what work was going on in Battlecrease House, what part of the building, when and by whom. Fortunately we are well placed to obtain factual clarification because Mr Dodd is giving us his full co-operation and support in order to try and help resolve these issues.

                            One question I can offer an answer to is why Paul Feldman asked Paul Dodd, on his first visit to Battlecrease in February 1993, as to whether there had been any work carried out in the recent past. There was always a slight unease around Mike Barrettís story that he had been given the Diary by the now dead Tony Devereux, without any explanation as to how Devereux had come by the Diary. This, I think, is what probably prompted Paulís question as to the possibility of it having been discovered in the house and finding its way into Devereuxís hands. As you say Ė a shot in the dark. But I think itís in Paulís book that he comments on Mikeís reaction, (also noted by Martin Howells and Paul Begg), that Mike physically staggered backwards upon learning work had been undertaken in the house. It might mean absolutely nothing - but it happened.

                            Thereís something which Shirley (Harrison) wrote in the 1998 updated revision of her book which has always struck me as particularly true:-

                            ďThose who have read the original, hardback edition of my book [1993] and the subsequent paperback editions will be aware that some of the details of Michaelís recollections have changed. We have been accused of altering the story to meet objections and so compounding a lie with a lie. Quite the reverse. Research is organic, it is not static. Over the five years since my first meeting with Michael I have learned a great deal. New information emerges every week and I have revised some of my interpretation of events accordingly, not to pervert the course of history, but to come nearer to the truth.Ē

                            In the main I am in agreement with what Shirley wrote, although I am very aware that, for Shirley, her interpretation of the new information will favour what she believes to be the truth. I donít have any problem with that. For me, I donít really care what the truth is or what side of the argument it comes down on. I donít care if James Maybrick, Michael Barrett or Bugs Bunny wrote this diary. It wonít make a scrap of difference to my life, or Carolineís or probably Jamesís. The truth is all that matters as far as I am concerned.

                            Hopefully, Iíll be able to get back to you over the next few months with answers to your questions.

                            Best Wishes
                            KS

                            Now you're looking for the secret, but you won't find it, because of course, you're not really looking. You want to be fooled.

                            Comment


                            • How come Keith shows up on the members list, as a cadet, but still posts via a 3rd party.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GUT View Post
                                How come Keith shows up on the members list, as a cadet, but still posts via a 3rd party.
                                Says he has been a member since 20 jan.
                                G U T

                                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                                Comment

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