Mary Kelly's time of death --> Maybrick unlikely to be JTR?

[YomRippur]

Hi, I'm reading the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper, and William Beadle's article "The Real Jack the Ripper" has this to say: "Nevertheless, like Cohen, Francis Tumblety is a credible suspect. I am afraid James Maybrick is not. There are simply too many problems, not the least of which is that modern-day pathology reliably puts Mary Kelly’s death at much later in the morning, which means that the diarist cannot have been the Ripper." My question is: how does Mary Kelly's time of death have any bearing on whether Maybrick was the killer or not? I know not all of Beadle's theories are sound, but what was Beadle basing on when he made that statement? Thanks in advance. This is my first post here!

[GUT]

Welcome to casebook.

I think there is a lot more wrong about Maybrick than MJK's t.o.d.

[John Wheat]

Hi, I'm reading the Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper, and William Beadle's article "The Real Jack the Ripper" has this to say: "Nevertheless, like Cohen, Francis Tumblety is a credible suspect. I am afraid James Maybrick is not. There are simply too many problems, not the least of which is that modern-day pathology reliably puts Mary Kelly’s death at much later in the morning, which means that the diarist cannot have been the Ripper." My question is: how does Mary Kelly's time of death have any bearing on whether Maybrick was the killer or not? I know not all of Beadle's theories are sound, but what was Beadle basing on when he made that statement? Thanks in advance. This is my first post here!

Hi YoumRippur

I assume that there is reference to the time of death in the diary. However I don't know for sure as I have not read the diary. Largely because as Beadle says Maybrick is not a creditable Ripper suspect. Also I don't agree with you on your point about Beadle's theories not being sound. If you ask me Beadle is right as regards the Ripper more than any other expert Ripperologist. Have you read Beadle's book Jack the Ripper Unmasked? If not I suggest you do.

Cheers John

[Iconoclast]

Hi YoumRippur

I assume that there is reference to the time of death in the diary. However I don't know for sure as I have not read the diary. Largely because as Beadle says Maybrick is not a creditable Ripper suspect. Also I don't agree with you on your point about Beadle's theories not being sound. If you ask me Beadle is right as regards the Ripper more than any other expert Ripperologist. Have you read Beadle's book Jack the Ripper Unmasked? If not I suggest you do.

Cheers John

Might as well address this head-on: If you have not read the journal, you arguably should not be posting trenchant views on this Casebook. It's rather like commenting on the appropriateness of the 4-4-2 formation without ever having seen a game of football.

You haven't read the journal, but don't worry about that because I suspect you will find that neither has Beadle nor the vast majority of people who comment so categorically about it here on this site and in ill-researched 'textbooks' on the Ripper.

PS For the record, I personally favour a diamond formation - but then I feel I have the right to comment as I've been watching football for 40 years now ...

Ike

[John Wheat]

Might as well address this head-on: If you have not read the journal, you arguably should not be posting trenchant views on this Casebook. It's rather like commenting on the appropriateness of the 4-4-2 formation without ever having seen a game of football.

You haven't read the journal, but don't worry about that because I suspect you will find that neither has Beadle nor the vast majority of people who comment so categorically about it here on this site and in ill-researched 'textbooks' on the Ripper.

PS For the record, I personally favour a diamond formation - but then I feel I have the right to comment as I've been watching football for 40 years now ...

Ike

Hi Ike

I was merely attempting to answer the question as best I could to a cadet on the site. I still gather Maybrick is not a creditable suspect. It should also be noted I have watched at least one documentary that concentrates on the diary, several that look at the diary plus read several articles on the diary. As for Beadle I have read his book Jack the Ripper Unmasked and several articles written by Beadle.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

In 'Jack the Ripper: Unmasked', Beadle puts forth a good argument for MJK's murder occurring later in the morning, on account of Mrs Maxwell's (and others) testimony and the inexact science of rigor mortis. He puts MJK's death to anytime between 10.00 - 10.45 am. My problem with this is that the previous victims were all murdered in the early hours. If we're assuming this was all the work of one killer, he was breaking his usual routine. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.

[Iconoclast]

Hi Ike

I was merely attempting to answer the question as best I could to a cadet on the site. I still gather Maybrick is not a creditable suspect. It should also be noted I have watched at least one documentary that concentrates on the diary, several that look at the diary plus read several articles on the diary. As for Beadle I have read his book Jack the Ripper Unmasked and several articles written by Beadle.

Cheers John

John,

Come on, you're posting on the James Maybrick element of the Jack the Riper Casebook. You should read Harrison II (which builds on I), Feldman, and then Linder et alia as these really get into the detail and will prompt a level of thought you are extremely unlikely to ever get from articles or documentaries.

If you're a cadet, fair enough (I apologise if I've been harsh).

Cheers,

Ike

[Iconoclast]

In 'Jack the Ripper: Unmasked', Beadle puts forth a good argument for MJK's murder occurring later in the morning, on account of Mrs Maxwell's (and others) testimony and the inexact science of rigor mortis. He puts MJK's death to anytime between 10.00 - 10.45 am. My problem with this is that the previous victims were all murdered in the early hours. If we're assuming this was all the work of one killer, he was breaking his usual routine. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.

All theory is good if it is based upon reasonably solid evidence (128 years is a long time for us to hope for just out and out 'solid' evidence).

I'm unfamiliar with Beadle's argument so I can't add anything right now ...

Ike

[David Orsam]

. The streets would've been thronging with people at that time (being the day of the Lord Mayor's show) and although that might have helped him slip into the crowds unnoticed, it would've also increased the risk of getting caught in the act.

I've got to tell you this is absolutely not true. The Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm, as scheduled, so anyone living in Whitechapel who wanted to go and see it was not likely to have left their house at any time before 11:00am. Further, it was reported that the streets along the route were practically deserted up to 10.30am that morning - no-one was going to be standing for two hours in the rain waiting for the procession to start - and it wasn't until noon that people started flocking into them.

[Harry D]

I've got to tell you this is absolutely not true. The Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm, as scheduled, so anyone living in Whitechapel who wanted to go and see it was not likely to have left their house at any time before 11:00am. Further, it was reported that the streets along the route were practically deserted up to 10.30am that morning - no-one was going to be standing for two hours in the rain waiting for the procession to start - and it wasn't until noon that people started flocking into them.

Thanks for that, David.

That said, there still would've been more people up and about at the time and a greater gamble for the killer. What if Indian Harry had decided to knock at MJK's place a little earlier? According to Beadle, he could very well have been face to face with the Ripper.

[David Orsam]

Thanks for that, David.

That said, there still would've been more people up and about at the time and a greater gamble for the killer. What if Indian Harry had decided to knock at MJK's place a little earlier? According to Beadle, he could very well have been face to face with the Ripper.

Yeah and what if, a few minutes earlier, Cross or Paul had walked into Bucks Row or Richardson had come down into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street or, Diemschutz had driven his horse and cart into Dutfields yard or PC Watkins, or anyone else, had strolled into Mitre Square.

Risks were taken by the killer at all times.

[John Wheat]

I've got to tell you this is absolutely not true. The Lord Mayor's procession departed from the Guildhall at shortly after 12.30pm, as scheduled, so anyone living in Whitechapel who wanted to go and see it was not likely to have left their house at any time before 11:00am. Further, it was reported that the streets along the route were practically deserted up to 10.30am that morning - no-one was going to be standing for two hours in the rain waiting for the procession to start - and it wasn't until noon that people started flocking into them.

Thanks for the info David. I tend to think the killer didn't leave the house until late morning. Maybe the killer didn't want to get wet.

[Harry D]

Yeah and what if, a few minutes earlier, Cross or Paul had walked into Bucks Row or Richardson had come down into the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street or, Diemschutz had driven his horse and cart into Dutfields yard or PC Watkins, or anyone else, had strolled into Mitre Square.

Risks were taken by the killer at all times.

Except that in most of the cases the killer had an exit route and the cover of darkness to facilitate his escape. Trapped in a hovel in broad daylight wasn't a smart move.

[David Orsam]

Except that in most of the cases the killer had an exit route and the cover of darkness to facilitate his escape. Trapped in a hovel in broad daylight wasn't a smart move.

Not much better being trapped in a hovel during the middle of the night.

[Harry D]

Not much better being trapped in a hovel during the middle of the night.

Less likely to be disturbed in the middle of the night.