Jacob Levy

[Pierre]

Pierre

Is the view that we cannot consider a member of the Jewish faith then?

How do we justify excluding a large percentage of the population in the area in 1888?


It is obviously there has been no looking into this individual, no source criticism or analysis.

Comical

Steve

Connect him to the murder sites. And give data for a motive. Please.

Just do no not tell me he "lived in the area", had anatomical knowledge and was placed in an asylum.

Regards, Pierre

[lilyofthevalley]

I'm of the opinion that at the time everything was done to hush the fact that the suspect may have been a Jew, rather than the other way around. Not withstanding the appalling anti-semitism of yesterday and today, not to look at Jewish suspects on account of them being Jewish, now that would be silly and biased.

[Elamarna]

Connect him to the murder sites. And give data for a motive. Please.

Just do no not tell me he "lived in the area", had anatomical knowledge and was placed in an asylum.

Regards, Pierre

Pierre


Its already been done, Ripperologist #124 I think, is a good place to start.

The comment just proves no research as been done!

By all means dismiss an idea; but please at least do the research to back up that viewpoint.
Instead we have a view, based on preconceived ideas, themselves based on data, the contents of which there is a refusal to disclose or even prove the existence of.

steve

[Pierre]

Pierre


Its already been done, Ripperologist #124 I think, is a good place to start.

The comment just proves no research as been done!

By all means dismiss an idea; but please at least do the research to back up that viewpoint.
Instead we have a view, based on preconceived ideas, themselves based on data, the contents of which there is a refusal to disclose or even prove the existence of.

steve

If he was Jack the Ripper we would have known it.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

If he was Jack the Ripper we would have known it.

Regards, Pierre

What an ridiculous idea.

No research done, and obviously no intention of even checking, That is meant to be an academic approach to research?


Steve

[Pierre]

What an ridiculous idea.

No research done, and obviously no intention of even checking, That is meant to be an academic approach to research?

Steve

I happen to think that the police had brains in 1888. The killer did not think so.

I think that was a mistake.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

I happen to think that the police had brains in 1888. The killer did not think so.

I think that was a mistake.

Regards, Pierre

Pierre

That reply has nothing to do with the points I raised. or the quote included in the reply, it is normal if a quote is given, for the reply to comment on that quote.
Neither does it have anything to do with excluding Levy.

Obviously no wish to answer those points. I can see that and so can everyone else.

steve

[Elamarna]

I'm of the opinion that at the time everything was done to hush the fact that the suspect may have been a Jew, rather than the other way around. Not withstanding the appalling anti-semitism of yesterday and today, not to look at Jewish suspects on account of them being Jewish, now that would be silly and biased.

hi there Liilyofthevalley,

I agree with you 100%.

levy is certainly a person of interest.

To just dismiss him based on his faith/race is ridiculous.

regards

Steve

[tji]

Hi Lily

Thank you TJI for answering some questions and also for the excellent work on Levy so far. We may never know the real name of JtR, but I think Levy is worth the investigation.
I think 1881 is too early for Levy to be mixed up with Kosminksi.

Thanks for your kind words, I too believe Jacob is a worthy candidate

Tj

[tji]

Hi Pierre

You can't demand people give you information you want, if you feel Jacob is not worthy suspect maybe try researching him first and then try arguing the case - you know with a valid argument.

As Steve rightly points out you're expecting them to supply you with all the info and then just basically ignoring his attempts at trying to discuss it with you.

If you're genuinely interested in Jacob either for or against him then fine we will discuss it, otherwise you're just wasting everyones time.

[GUT]

Pierre


Its already been done, Ripperologist #124 I think, is a good place to start.

The comment just proves no research as been done!

By all means dismiss an idea; but please at least do the research to back up that viewpoint.
Instead we have a view, based on preconceived ideas, themselves based on data, the contents of which there is a refusal to disclose or even prove the existence of.

steve

His first day here he told us he refuses to read anything, nothing has changed.

[Elamarna]

His first day here he told us he refuses to read anything, nothing has changed.

Yes GUT

we continue to be told there is no history unless we analyse each individual source, and that is how all real historians work. BUT then there is a refusal to follow those very same "RULES" which have been laid down. Truly Bizarre.
I am open about it and say my top suspect is Kosminski, but add, or someone like him, and Levy is very much in that category.

In many respects he is a better fit to Anderson's suspect than AK, unlike many named persons he does have a real trigger to the murders.

It is shameful to dismiss a whole group of persons based on faith/race, all to do with preconceived views, nothing to do with History or the evidence (sources).

Steve

[tji]

His first day here he told us he refuses to read anything, nothing has changed.

Am I missing something here? Why was his name on almost all threads if he isn't here to learn and discuss, what can he possibly talk about?

[GUT]

Am I missing something here? Why was his name on almost all threads if he isn't here to learn and discuss, what can he possibly talk about?

To be a troll is my guess, but he made it clear as that he refuses to read anything written by what he terms non Academic Historians.

Now as every historian I've shown his methodology too, has said "That's no historian" he may not even read his own stuff.

Has nothing but contempt for "Ripperologists" does Pierre.

[Pierre]

By all means dismiss an idea; but please at least do the research to back up that viewpoint.

steve

Hi Steve,

Will do.

Joseph Hyam Levy gave the following descriptions for the person that you think might be Jacob Levy in the original inquest papers:

"...a man..." - "...about 3 inches taller than the woman...".
(Evans & Skinner, p. 237-238).

Joseph Lawende said:

"...a man..." - "The man was taller than she was." - "The man had a cloth cap on with a cloth peak."

(ibid., p. 237).

Report by Swanson 19 October 1888:

"age 30 ht. 5 ft. 7 or 8 in. comp. fair, fair moustache, medium build, dress pepper & salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same colour, reddish handkerchief tied in a knot, round neck, appearance of a sailor.

(according to "two men coming out of a club close by")

(ibid., p 138)

Report by Swanson 6 November 1888:

"Mr. Lamende states that he could not identify the man".

(ibid., p. 207)

Macnaghten 1894:

"No one ever saw the Whitechapel murderer..."

(ibid., p 347)

Problems:

There are no sources for Jacob Levy's hair color or skin complexion, so we do not know how he looked. Therefore we can not compare him to the sources above.

The witnesses do not know who the woman they described was, since she was standing with her back against them. Therefore we do not know if the woman was Eddowes.

The clothes worn by the woman they saw are described as black. Many women dressed in black, not just Eddowes. Therefore we can not know if the woman was Eddowes. It could have been any woman or any prostitute.

Therefore it is impossible to say if the man was the killer of Eddowes. He could have been any man talking to any woman or any man talking to any prostitute.

Macnaghten can not be referring to the man seen together with a woman on the night of the double event, since that man was seen.

There are no sources connecting Jacob Levy to any of the murders. There are no witness statements describing him, no communications pointing towards him, no confession made by him.

A part of the English populations was living in Whitechapel 1888. Living in Whitechapel 1888 is no indication of being a serial killer called Jack the Ripper.

A part of the population in Whitechapel consisted of jews. Being a jew in Whitechapel 1888 is no indication of being a serial killer called Jack the Ripper.

A part of the population in Whitechapel 1888 consisted of butchers. Being a butcher in Whitehapel 1888 is no indication of being a serial killer called Jack the Ripper.

A part of the population in Whitechapel 1888 was defined as lunatics/maniacs and a part of the population was institutionalized in asylums. Being in an asylum in 1888 is no indication of being a serial killer called Jack the Ripper.

A part of the population in Whitechapel/England/the world had syphilis 1888. Having syphilis in Whitechapel 1888 is no indication of being a serial killer called Jack the Ripper.

Other problems:

The 1888 antisemitism gave people a reason for suspecting jews for having committed the serial murders.

The 1888 idea of "anatomical knowledge" needed to perform the mutilations gave reason for suspecting butchers for having committed the serial murders.

The 1888 belief that the murderer was "insane"/"a lunatic"/"mad" and so on and so forth gave reason for suspecting people in asylums.

These ideas are now the ghosts from 1888, dictating our thinking and making people believe in ghosts, although it is obvious that there are no historical reasons for doing so, when we analyse the original sources high up in the source hierarchy from 1888.

Kind regards, Pierre