So Cross the Ripper got involved in the investigation. Why did he stop?

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;379650]

But comparatively few occupants to look out, certain when compared to Hanbury Street for example, And while 3 entrance mean people can come from any direction, it equally gives a three routes for escape too.

Steve

Do you mean to say that the serial killer knew the number of the occupants in the houses around the murder sites?

And good that you point out that Hanbury Street also was a high risk murder site.

(Guess the killer didnīt doo a comparative analysis.)

Yes, good escape ways in Buckīs Row, Berner Street and Mitre Square. And Millerīs Court. Running like a lunatic from the police or witnesses. Or people looking out from their windows in Hanbury Street.

And still, no one saw anything. Ever. Not even Lechmere.

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

Running like a lunatic from the police or witnesses.

I've often wondered how Jack the Ripper would have run. Like a lunatic, perhaps?

[Pierre]

Yes. And I would really like to hear Fishermanīs explanation of the established fact that one torso was placed in the new Scotland Yard building and also of Arnolds story about a police inspector telling him about a murder in Backchurch Lane a year after the murder of Annie Chapman.

But of course, he has also chosen to call Lechmereīs sighting of a policeman in Buckīs Row a "Scam".

Regards, Pierre

Fisherman?

[Elamarna]

[QUOTE=Pierre;379652]

Do you mean to say that the serial killer knew the number of the occupants in the houses around the murder sites?

And good that you point out that Hanbury Street also was a high risk murder site.

(Guess the killer didnīt doo a comparative analysis.)

Yes, good escape ways in Buckīs Row, Berner Street and Mitre Square. And Millerīs Court. Running like a lunatic from the police or witnesses. Or people looking out from their windows in Hanbury Street.

And still, no one saw anything. Ever. Not even Lechmere.

Regards, Pierre

There were comparatively few houses in the square, given its size, and I believe it is your belief that the killer chose the site, so is it wrong to assume he had checked it out in advance and knew that most of the windows were in warehouses and noticed the empty house, then as now they were probably obvious.
Of course if it was not his choice of site, that will not apply

Why run unless you were caught in the act? Just walk normally.

Steve

[Columbo]

[QUOTE=Pierre;379647]

Excuse me, Patrick, but:

Have you "felt"? How could feelings have anything to do with the sources from 1888?



Sure. So the favourite spot of Polly Nichols was in a street where people were going to work. And the favourite spot of Elizabeth Stride was just outside the International Working Men's Educational Club?

No. Those places were with very high probability the choice of the killer. And the choice were high risk murder sites.




Mitre Square had three entrances. And there were a lot of windows.

Kelly stayed on the ground floor in a small room with a broken window. Anyone could have put his hand through the window and he would have seen the killer.

Regards, Pierre

But if the killer picked the sites then he picked at least two sites (hanbury and mitre's square) That were well known as places prostitutes go. Eddowes was seen outside of Mitre's square making a deal so she was already in the vicinity. Chapman was not far from 29 hanbury when she was making her deal.
He would have to know Kelly had her own room which meant he knew her.

I have to disagree, the women picked these spots. These were opportunistic murders.
I recall a story Fido told in his jack the ripper audio that a friend of his was giving a JTR tour and they came across a prostitute and client banging against a wall in plain site, so I'm sure that happened back then as well.

Columbo

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Columbo;379660]

But if the killer picked the sites then he picked at least two sites (hanbury and mitre's square) That were well known as places prostitutes go. Eddowes was seen outside of Mitre's square making a deal so she was already in the vicinity. Chapman was not far from 29 hanbury when she was making her deal.
He would have to know Kelly had her own room which meant he knew her.

I have to disagree, the women picked these spots. These were opportunistic murders.
I recall a story Fido told in his jack the ripper audio that a friend of his was giving a JTR tour and they came across a prostitute and client banging against a wall in plain site, so I'm sure that happened back then as well.

Columbo

Good old Fido and his stories.

But this was a radically different thing you see. It was murdering in plain sight.

And it was 1888.

Regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Elamarna;379658][QUOTE=Pierre;379652]

There were comparatively few houses in the square, given its size, and I believe it is your belief that the killer chose the site, so is it wrong to assume he had checked it out in advance and knew that most of the windows were in warehouses and noticed the empty house, then as now they were probably obvious.

Oh, I see. You do not understand. You said that there were not many occupants. So I pointed out that the killer did not know how many they were and therefore could not have chosen murder sites on the basis of the number of occupants living in the houses around them.

Of course if it was not his choice of site, that will not apply

If he chose high risk places, which they were, he did not care about the number of windows.

Why run unless you were caught in the act?

Because the police stopped and questioned everyone they saw?

Just walk normally.

Steve

And hang.

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

So I pointed out that the killer did not know how many they were and therefore could not have chosen murder sites on the basis of the number of occupants living in the houses around them.

How do you know what the killer knew or did not know?

[Elamarna]

Oh, I see. You do not understand. You said that there were not many occupants. So I pointed out that the killer did not know how many they were and therefore could not have chosen murder sites on the basis of the number of occupants living in the houses around them.

Pierre
It seems you are the one failing to understand this time.
lets be clear.
Mitre Square has few house, mainly warehouses, some of the houses empty, anyone checking the square would realise that there were not many people there.

To say he could not have chosen site based on the number of persons who may see is your opinion, only that.
He could well have made a choice of site, if he did choose the site, with that factored in.
While I agree such a suggestion cannot be proved, neither can it be disapproved.

If he chose high risk places, which they were, he did not care about the number of windows.

This is based on him making the choice, another issue for which there is no source in THIS case.
The hypothesis he did not care, while a valid hypotheses is one that so far you have not proved.

Because the police stopped and questioned everyone they saw?

So someone running is more likely to attract attention, it is a very small area, even today 128 years later the alleyways make it easy to twist and turn any route you want, if you know the area.

Running defeats the object of escape in such circumstances.

And hang.

I assume something is missing there?

leaving the thread here because again I feel this is straying off topic

Steve

[Columbo]

Pierre
It seems you are the one failing to understand this time.
lets be clear.
Mitre Square has few house, mainly warehouses, some of the houses empty, anyone checking the square would realise that there were not many people there.

To say he could not have chosen site based on the number of persons who may see is your opinion, only that.
He could well have made a choice of site, if he did choose the site, with that factored in.
While I agree such a suggestion cannot be proved, neither can it be disapproved.




This is based on him making the choice, another issue for which there is no source in THIS case.
The hypothesis he did not care, while a valid hypotheses is one that so far you have not proved.




So someone running is more likely to attract attention, it is a very small area, even today 128 years later the alleyways make it easy to twist and turn any route you want, if you know the area.

Running defeats the object of escape in such circumstances.


I assume something is missing there?

leaving the thread here because again I feel this is straying off topic

Steve

I agree, so I will close my participation in this thread by saying that I don't believe Lechmer wanted to get involved with the investigation, but was basically forced into it because of Paul's voluntarily coming forward.

Columbo

[GUT]

I agree, so I will close my participation in this thread by saying that I don't believe Lechmer wanted to get involved with the investigation, but was basically forced into it because of Paul's voluntarily coming forward.

Columbo

How did that "Force" him to come forward, clearly no one had any idea who he was.

Even if they searched for him "Sorry old chap you must have the erong fellow" and take one of the other routes to work, how would they have any chance of finding him.

[Harry D]

Yes, good escape ways in Buckīs Row, Berner Street and Mitre Square. And Millerīs Court. Running like a lunatic from the police or witnesses. Or people looking out from their windows in Hanbury Street.

And still, no one saw anything. Ever. Not even Lechmere.

I've always thought that was incredible, Pierre. What with the high-risk environments and the overcrowded living conditions, it's a miracle that no one ever caught a glimpse of the killer leaving the scene of the crimes. I think the closest detection we have is PC Thompson hearing footsteps leaving Swallow Gardens shortly before he found Frances Coles... and she's not even considered a canonical.

[Columbo]

How did that "Force" him to come forward, clearly no one had any idea who he was.

Even if they searched for him "Sorry old chap you must have the erong fellow" and take one of the other routes to work, how would they have any chance of finding him.

Very good point. Force may be too strong a word. Compelled might be better. Not necessarily because he did it, but it could be he just didn't want to get involved. Just my thoughts.

I'm at the point I wish I could conjure him with a medium and ask!

Columbo

[harry]

While there may not be much in the way of evidence,there is a heap of information available.Posters have had plenty of time and sufficient information,in my view,to give an opinion on the followin.
When entering Bucks Row,was Cross merely a workman on his way to work,or a killer searching for a victim? Did he meet Nichols in Bucks Row,gain her confidence,and decide to kill her where she was found.Or was it an unexplained blitz attack on seeing her at that spot.

[GUT]

While there may not be much in the way of evidence,there is a heap of information available.Posters have had plenty of time and sufficient information,in my view,to give an opinion on the followin.
When entering Bucks Row,was Cross merely a workman on his way to work,or a killer searching for a victim? Did he meet Nichols in Bucks Row,gain her confidence,and decide to kill her where she was found.Or was it an unexplained blitz attack on seeing her at that spot.

Merely on his way to work who stumbled upon a victim.

I have seen nothing to show anything else, the Ripper could have got away as little as 40 seconds before Cross arrived after all that's all there was between Cross and Paul.