So Cross the Ripper got involved in the investigation. Why did he stop?

[Columbo]

I think we're giving Cross too much credit. If he saw the killer he would've said so.

I doubt he gave it a second thought about giving his address, since he wasn't considered a suspect. And if he did see the killer, it's doubtful the JTR would've come after him. He didn't go after any of the other witnesses.

And, hypothetically, if he did see the killer it would've been in the file somewhere and reported in the news.

I think it's a far reach to think that Cross was this diabolical genius who was second guessing the police at every turn. If he was JTR he was really lucky he didn't get caught by Paul actually killing Nichols, just like he was lucky Albert Kodosh didn't look over the fence, or someone didn't look in Mary Kelly's room when they heard someone cry murder.

Columbo

[Harry D]

I think we're giving Cross too much credit. If he saw the killer he would've said so.

I doubt he gave it a second thought about giving his address, since he wasn't considered a suspect. And if he did see the killer, it's doubtful the JTR would've come after him. He didn't go after any of the other witnesses.

And, hypothetically, if he did see the killer it would've been in the file somewhere and reported in the news.

I think it's a far reach to think that Cross was this diabolical genius who was second guessing the police at every turn. If he was JTR he was really lucky he didn't get caught by Paul actually killing Nichols, just like he was lucky Albert Kodosh didn't look over the fence, or someone didn't look in Mary Kelly's room when they heard someone cry murder.

Columbo

OF COURSE Lechmere was an evil genius. How else did he manage to remain gainfully employed and provide for a large family in an overcrowded district whilst moonlighting as a violent serial killer until he died of old age? All while raising nary a suspicion from anyone. That's the one thing people conveniently forget when citing serial killers who were family men... they all got caught because they weren't able to maintain a double-life with that level of risk.

[Robert]

His last words were : "The world will hear from me again."

[Columbo]

His last words were : "The world will hear from me again."

I'm not saying Cross didn't do it, I'm just pointing out that we're giving Cross a lot of un-warranted credit.

Columbo

[Pierre]

Suppose that Cross, after just his first or second murder, manages to insert himself into the investigation of his own crimes by posing as a witness, and not only speaking to a police officer, but giving the police officer a name that, while not "his real name", can be traced to him, and completes this by showing up to the inquest, which must have been swarming with law enforcement officials of every kind, and talks to the media.

Some serial killers obtain great pleasure and satisfaction from inserting themelves into the investigation like this. If Cross was indeed the Ripper, he seems to be showing signs of this tendency.

Once he is in that deep, why stop? Why does he not attempt to exploit his fame and his place in the investigation?

The killer changed type of murder site after Nichols. Buckīs Row and 29 Hanbury Street are very different. An open street - a dark courtyard. Why?

The clothes were "a little above her knees". Why?

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

The killer changed type of murder site after Nichols. Buckīs Row and 29 Hanbury Street are very different. An open street - a dark courtyard. Why?

The clothes were "a little above her knees". Why?

Pierre, you seem be asking the same question that Ripperologists have been asking for the last hundred years.

And they haven't come up with the answer either.

What a shining example of a Ripperologist you have become!

[Pierre]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Columbo]

The killer changed type of murder site after Nichols. Buckīs Row and 29 Hanbury Street are very different. An open street - a dark courtyard. Why?

The clothes were "a little above her knees". Why?

Regards, Pierre

Hey Pierre,

I thought the general consensus at the time was the victims chose the site. Although I think Nichols was an opportunity killing. She just happened to be there going somewhere else.

Fisherman has already stated that his theory was Cross lowered the clothes to hide the wounds so Paul wouldn't see them. Please correct me if I'm wrong Fisherman, I know that's very basic.

Columbo

[David Orsam]

Ignorance is bliss.

Does that mean you are very happy?

[Azarna]

I doubt he gave it a second thought about giving his address, since he wasn't considered a suspect. And if he did see the killer, it's doubtful the JTR would've come after him. He didn't go after any of the other witnesses.

Lechmere would not have known that as, if Macnaghten is right, then Polly Nichols was the first woman murdered by JTR, so there had been no previous JTR murders and hence no previous witnesses.

Having said that, it seems a bit foolish to give the correct address and the wrong surname if you are trying to avoid someone you believe may be coming after you. Surely it is the address that is the bit you would want to hide.

[Columbo]

Lechmere would not have known that as, if Macnaghten is right, then Polly Nichols was the first woman murdered by JTR, so there had been no previous JTR murders and hence no previous witnesses.

Correct, I didn't make a clear point.

Having said that, it seems a bit foolish to give the correct address and the wrong surname if you are trying to avoid someone you believe may be coming after you. Surely it is the address that is the bit you would want to hide.

Columbo

[Azarna]

Sorry, I was being rather pedantic there.

Plus, of course, at the time Polly Nichols murder was generally considered to be the third murder, not the first.

[Columbo]

Sorry, I was being rather pedantic there.

Plus, of course, at the time Polly Nichols murder was generally considered to be the third murder, not the first.

No offense taken

[Fisherman]

it seems a bit foolish to give the correct address and the wrong surname if you are trying to avoid someone you believe may be coming after you. Surely it is the address that is the bit you would want to hide.

The theory works from the assumption that Lechmere knew that the cops would either A/ investigate him or B/ not.
Given that the alternative A would have been an open possibility, Lechmere needed to be truthful towards the police to the greatest possible extent. If he lied and was found out, it would spell disaster.

When it comes to his family and aquaintances, the theory resons that he wanted to keep them unaware about his involvment. They could monitor him on an everyday basis, and could easily begin to suspect him.

So there was a dilemma: How to be as truthful as possible to the police and as evasive as possible towards those who knew him intimately?

The answer was:

1. Give the police the real working place, the real address and a name that was one that he could claim a right to. He could not lie about the working place, he could not lie about the address but he COULD claim to use the name Cross at times, and that it was his to use.

2. Serve the family and aquaintances (via the press reporting from the inquest) the name Cross (obscuring him), the real workplace (where hundreds of men worked) and avoid giving the address in front of the inquest (which seemingly was what he did).

Now the police had him nicely registered with information he could claim was correct, whereas the family and aquaintances only had information that a carman named Charles Cross, working at Pickfords, had been a witness at a murder inquest.

Job done.

Itīs not as if we could say that it would be more clever to call himself Tristan Longfellow, living at 2 Harley Street and working at the Home Office. If he was checked out, he would be fried.

Nor would it be better to give the name Charles Lechmere, and the real address and working place, if he wanted to keep his involvement from those who knew him.

I think he may well have optimized the information to suit his purposes, if they were what we think they were.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Christer

Have you ever come across in your research the "fraudulent" other Charles Cross, aged 23 in 1876 and living at 39 Cambridge Rd Mile End ?