What happened to Lechmere......

[Rosella]

Here's a good place to start.

The Lechmere trail - so far
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9056

For all the Lechmere threads:

Lechmere/Cross, Charles
http://forum.casebook.org/forumdisplay.php?f=137

Yes, thank you Zena, but I do know about those threads. The point is that there is not one shred of proof that Lechmere was ever in near roximity of Chapman, Stride, Eddowes or Kelly, as Fisherman has admitted on a few occasions. That's why when Lechmere/Cross comes up the minutiae of Polly's murder and Mizen and Neil gets chewed over again and again. Yes, he lived and worked in the area. So did thousands of other males. As far as I'm concerned he was the discoverer of Polly Nichols's body and nothing else.

[Zena]

Yes, thank you Zena, but I do know about those threads.

You're welcome, Rosella.

The point is that there is not one shred of proof that Lechmere was ever in near roximity of Chapman, Stride, Eddowes or Kelly, as Fisherman has admitted on a few occasions.

As far as I'm aware, having read most if not all of those threads, Fisherman has always stated there is no solid proof or evidence. It's all the little things that add up that make Lechmere a viable suspect.

I'm not 100% convinced of the Lechmere/Cross theory, but I do find it interesting and plausible. I'm always interested in reading more about it whenever Fisherman has the time and inclination to provide more information. And, at this point, most of the recently posed questions can be answered by the "The Lechmere trail - so far" thread, at the least. If not, then the other Lechmere/Cross threads will surely do it. At lot of reading, yes, but the answers are there.

Zena

[Abby Normal]

Yes, thank you Zena, but I do know about those threads. The point is that there is not one shred of proof that Lechmere was ever in near roximity of Chapman, Stride, Eddowes or Kelly, as Fisherman has admitted on a few occasions. That's why when Lechmere/Cross comes up the minutiae of Polly's murder and Mizen and Neil gets chewed over again and again. Yes, he lived and worked in the area. So did thousands of other males. As far as I'm concerned he was the discoverer of Polly Nichols's body and nothing else.

Hi Rosella
I think there argument is that lechs work route would take him by most the murder sites approx. the time of the murders. And re stride and eddowes-his mother worked near by as with the pinchon street torso.

I know the usual counter is that thousands of men could have the same circs, but out of all the suspects Lech IS the only one where there is this evidence so I think they have a valid claim on this.

and as Zena said, all the other stuff starts to add up.

[Ben]

To my mind, the "work route" argument would only be persuasive if we had a) the slightest reason to believe the real killer would murder and dispose of his victims en route to work, or b) examples of other serial killers doing so. Since we have neither, I struggle to see how walking past two of the murder locations can be construed as a plus in favour of Crossmere's guilt. At least two of the murders were likely to have been committed long after he was due at work, and the idea of him arriving at Pickfords with freshly extracted innards stretches credibility to the limit.

[John G]

To my mind, the "work route" argument would only be persuasive if we had a) the slightest reason to believe the real killer would murder and dispose of his victims en route to work, or b) examples of other serial killers doing so. Since we have neither, I struggle to see how walking past two of the murder locations can be construed as a plus in favour of Crossmere's guilt. At least two of the murders were likely to have been committed long after he was due at work, and the idea of him arriving at Pickfords with freshly extracted innards stretches credibility to the limit.

An excellent post, Ben. Moreover, Whitechapel was such a condensed district that anyone who lived or worked there would surely be reasonably close to many of the murder scenes. As I've pointed out myself, Sergeant Thick lived just a stone's throw from Berner Street, and hasn't it been argued that Kosminski was most likely living in Providence Street, just a few steps away from where Stride was killed in Berner Street?

[Ben]

You're absolutely right, John.

I'm also not sure what leads some to conclude that a person who has occasion to walk through a murder district is more suspicious than a person who lives in it. Not historical precedent (which suggests the reverse), that's for sure.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Ben and JohnG
Your both absolutely correct and Ben, I totally agree, as its one of my main beefs against Lech is murdering and carrying organs on his way to work.

My point is that their is some logistical validity to the claim that puts him in very near proximity to kill sites on a daily basis, and its something that other suspects don't have.

and the point of suspect like hutch who lived in the heart of the kill zone is well taken. as everyone knows hutch (and Blotchy) is my favored suspect who I think has much more going for him.

I don't mean to be talking out both sides of my mouth, but I try to keep an open mind.

[Abby Normal]

Ben also brings up another excellent point re historical context of serial killers killing on their way to work.

I cant think of any who did this off hand. Chikitlo perhaps? or was that always on his way home?

Does anybody know if there is any serial killers who killed on their way to work?

[John Wheat]

Without wishing to be pedantic, these aren't actually coincidences,. They are facts, but they don't coincide with anything. If he'd found the bodies of TWO of the victims, that would be a coincidence.

You are being pedantic Purkis.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Hello John,

Check out the first post of a thread titled "The Lechmere trail ...so far",
where Fisherman puts foward 31 points.

Hello Purkis,

Quite right and exactly what else constitutes a "coincidence" is key to the claims.
1. Are the claims facts in the first place?
2. Are the claims unusual and/or exclusive to Xmere?

Drstrange 169

I have reread the post and I'm now even more certain there is nothing to suggest Lechmere is anything other than a witness.

Cheers John

[Ben]

Good points, Abby.

I suppose, at the very least, it's a start when a suspect or person of interest can be shown to have lived and/or worked in the area. When I first posted here ten years ago, it struck me than the then "popular" suspects couldn't even be placed in London at the relevant time.

[John Wheat]

I know the usual counter is that thousands of men could have the same circs, but out of all the suspects Lech IS the only one where there is this evidence so I think they have a valid claim on this.

and as Zena said, all the other stuff starts to add up.

To Abby Normal

Evidence of what? That he went to work near the murder sites. Ridiculous.

Cheers John

[drstrange169]

>>Mizens report cannot have been written from a perspective where he was not lied to. It seems nobody is willing to debate that...<<

The issue has been discussed ad nauseum, literally, everyone's sick of talking about it. It's even had it's own threads.

The whole Mizen Scam has been debunked beyond reasonable doubt. Can it be said 100%? No, but unless there someone comes up with something that contradicts all the known evidence thus far, Mizen was at fault in some way.
All people involved accepted Xmere's version as true.

[drstrange169]

Hello John,

>>I have reread the post and I'm now even more certain there is nothing to suggest Lechmere is anything other than a witness.<<

You not going to get a contrary argument from me, that's for sure;-)

[John Wheat]

Hello John,

>>I have reread the post and I'm now even more certain there is nothing to suggest Lechmere is anything other than a witness.<<

You not going to get a contrary argument from me, that's for sure;-)

To drstrange169

May I ask why not?

Cheers John