Charles Lechmere: Prototypical Life of a Serial Killer

[Fiver]

Could the fact Lechmere lost his oldest son and his wife gave birth to his daughter Mary Anne within a few DAYS of each other...and be the reason why Mary Anne was raised by her Grandmother, ergo, did Lechmere somehow blame her birth for him losing his son?...his wife wasn't around to nurse his dying son.

RD

Mary Jane Lechmere was born in January of 1875. Charles Allen Jr died some time in the first quarter of 1875. We have no idea if the death was days, weeks, or months away from his sister's birth. If there had been any resentment between Charles Allen Sr and Mary Jane, it seems odd that he would be a witness at her wedding in 1899.

In the end, we have no reason why Mary Jane was raised at her grandmother's. Any answer is speculation, which points us nowhere.

[Fiver]

Was it significant that the Pinchin Street Torso was dumped under a train arch just a few yards away from where Lechmere's mother had lived recently?

RD

Maria Louisa Forsdyke moved to 23 Pinchin Street some time between 1872 and 1881. They moved away to Mary Ann Street sometime between 1881 and 1885. By the time of the Ripper killings she hadn't loved on Pinchin Street for at least 3 1/2 years. The Pinchin Street Torso was dumped a few blocks from her previous home, not a few yards.

There are lots of people who were relatives of people who used to live within a few blocks of the Pinchin Street railway arches. The location doesn't give us reason to suspect anyone. It's a weaker connection than suspecting a relative of someone who worked at Scotland Yard because a torso was found there in 1888.

[Fiver]

Does his mother's work involving cat meat/horse flesh dealing, have anything to do with the location of Nichols murder being just yards away from a horse slaughter?

RD

No.

The knackers was not just a few yards away, it was around the opposite side of the block. Plenty of other buildings were at least as close. None of their residents have any known ties to the murder. The location was probably chosen by the victim for comparative privacy, not for easy access to a slaughterhouse. Cats meat dealers bought from wholesalers, not directly from a slaughterhouse. Maria Louisa Forsdike isn't known to be a horse flesh dealer until 1891 and probably didn't become one until after her third husband's death in late 1889. Records show Charles Allen Lechmere was working as a carman between 1871 and 1901, becoming a grocer in 1902. He was never a cats meat dealer.

[Fiver]

Does his signature/handwriting on his marriage certificate/other written documentation resemble any of the alleged ripper letters?

RD

There were hundreds of Ripper letters. Most, possibly all, were fakes. A few signatures is not enough of a sample to make a handwriting match. If a full letter by Lechmere was found and proved to be authentic and determined to be a match by professional graphologists, then it would prove Lechmere was one of the dozens of hoaxers, not that he was the killer.

[Fiver]

Did his stepfather Cross have any connections to other police officers/officials that were active during the time of the murder?

RD

By the time of the murders, Thomas Cross had been dead for nearly two decades. Looking at the Nichols case.

Inspector Abberline didn't transfer to H Division until 1873, years after Thomas Cross died.
Sergeant Enwright joined the force in 1874.
Sergeant Godley joined the force in 1877
Inspector Helson joined the force in 1869, the year Thomas Cross died.
PC Mizen joined the force in 1873.
PC Neil joined the force in 1875.
Inspector Spratling joined the force in 1870.
PC Thain appears to have joined the force in 1881.

So a definite no for everyone but Spratling, who would be a probably not.

[The Rookie Detective]

Exceptional Fiver, absolutely exceptional work there, very much appreciated...


That's how it's done


Hats off to you sir!


RD

[Abby Normal]

do we really need three active threads on lech? cmon anti lechers, tighten it up! lol

[Fiver]

Did his knocking down and killing the boy on his cart a few years prior to the murders have a distinct negative psychological effect on him?

RD

Unless he was a psychopath, the accident would affect him psychologically. He'd lost a young son a little under two years previously. The boy was only four years old. The boy wasn't killed immediately, but took some time to die. The accident had happened only a few days before Christmas and the inquest wasn't held until nearly New Years. As witnesses would testify, he'd done nothing wrong - driving slowly, well clear of the pavement, called out to warn the children, and tried to stop his van, but the father blamed him anyaway. His job and his freedom were on the line.

That would affect any normal man and there is no evidence that Lechmere was a psychopath. Depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc are credible, but not inevitable results. Overprotectiveness of his own children might occur.

But this tragedy wouldn't give anyone an urge to start mutilating prostitutes 12 years later. That's like arguing 1 + 2 = banana fish.

[John Wheat]

do we really need three active threads on lech? cmon anti lechers, tighten it up! lol

Hi Abby. We don't need any threads on Lechmere other than a witness thread. The threads were all started by Lechmerians though I believe.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

I already did. You even replied to it.

What I was after was a reaction from your side about the very real possibility that you may have identified an important factor behind why Lechmere may have been the Ripper; the stress factor linked to a severe working schedule, in combination with how such a thing can have made him feel that he had been deprived of control in his everyday life.

That, I think, is the legacy of your find. As has been shown, although you may reason that you personally think that the schedule could have prevented Lechmere from having the time and drive to kill, looking closer at the matter tells us that no such claim can be in any way conclusive. But I think you have realized that too.

[Fisherman]

And yet you demand certain posters, and only those posters, answer topics chose by you. If you can't handle criticism of your opinions from all posters on this forum, then perhaps you should retreat back to one of your safe spaces.

“If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.” - Harry Truman

Again, we are all at liberty to take part out here to whichever degree we like. We are even at liberty to falsely lead on that our opponents "can't handle criticism", if we want to do that kind of ripperology.

[Fisherman]

This tells us more about you than it does about the case - your assumption of Lechmere's guilt, double standard when he does the exact same thing as Paul, poposing a theory that does not make sense, and ignoring that Paul also spoke to Mizen and at the inquest.

Of course, we already knew that about you.

And about YOU, we can tell that you are ready to regard it as a fact that Paul also spoke to Mizen - which it is in no way.

I was pointing out that you left out a very real possibility from you options, which is never a good thing. The same goes for how you now chose to call it "double standards" for pointing out that Lechmere may have had grounds to keep quiet about having noticed the open eyes that Paul would have had, if Lechmere was the killer. That is not double standards, that is taking a discerning look at all possibilities instead of sweeping the ones we dislike under the carpet.
Such a thing is not double standards, of course. It is no standards at all.

[Fisherman]

I wasn't claiming expertise, please read what I actually said. Unconscious people normally have their eyes closed. Accounts that I have read by war veterans have stated that war dead typically have their eyes open. One Korean War veteran stated that he never saw a dead man in Korea that had his eyes closed. Of course that may not mean that the eyes open at death, it may mean that someone killed while their eyes were open did not close their eyes when they died. It's not the kind of thing that could be ethically researched.

I didnīt SAY you were claiming expertise, please read what I actually said.

There is research on the matter, and in at least one case the authors reasoned about the ethical factor.

[Fisherman]

Hi Abby. We don't need any threads on Lechmere other than a witness thread. The threads were all started by Lechmerians though I believe.

Cheers John

If you had been a tad more observant, you would be aware that the thread you are currently writing on was started by Poster Patrick S. He can be called a lot of things, but "Lechmerian" is not one of them.
Otherwise, observing that people who believe that they have identified an excellent suspect are more inclined to start threads about said suspect than the ones who are not equally convinced about the suspect value of the described person, is really keen eyed.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What I was after was a reaction from your side about the very real possibility that you may have identified an important factor behind why Lechmere may have been the Ripper; the stress factor linked to a severe working schedule, in combination with how such a thing can have made him feel that he had been deprived of control in his everyday life.

That, I think, is the legacy of your find. As has been shown, although you may reason that you personally think that the schedule could have prevented Lechmere from having the time and drive to kill, looking closer at the matter tells us that no such claim can be in any way conclusive. But I think you have realized that too.

Unbelievable!

You can turn every single, inconsequential snippet into a pointer toward his guilt.

Compare the nonsense above with ‘standing around, knife in pocket, potentially with blood on him, waiting for a complete stranger to show up, rather that flee to safety.’

Thats an overwhelmingly huge pointer toward innocence.

The fact that despite efforts no one can find a single example of a serial killer killing just before he’s due at work.

Thats an overwhelmingly huge pointer toward innocence.

The fact that no one can find a example of someone finding the body of a woman in the street, then waiting for a witness, and it turns out that the discoverer was the killer.

Thats an overwhelmingly huge pointer toward innocence.

Oh, and the fact that there’s nothing that points to his guilt.