Charles Lechmere: Prototypical Life of a Serial Killer

[Herlock Sholmes]

You mean more nonsense from Von Stow.

That’s Herr Obersturmbannführer Von Stow to you Fiver.

[Fiver]

New HoL video...

You mean more nonsense from Von Stow.

[Mark J D]

For me, the whispers were either..


The killer and Nichol's prior to the attack

OR

The killer whispering to her as part of his sadistic ritual.

Are they really the two best options?

New HoL video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIWv7-x_PM

Mark D.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The apron, herlock, the apron..

Damn. I’d forgotten about that Wulf. Fair play.

[Aethelwulf]

It says it all when they can’t post one thing that suggests Cross’s guilt. They’ve only had 42 hours though. Perhaps they need a bit longer?

The apron, herlock, the apron..

[Herlock Sholmes]

It says it all when they can’t post one thing that suggests Cross’s guilt. They’ve only had 42 hours though. Perhaps they need a bit longer?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Evidence that suggests guilt?

Still waiting.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Here we go again:

'The police would surely have [[insert imaginings here]]...'
(Rinse and repeat until Lechmere fades away...)

Uh, no.

M.

Either a) the police had nothing suspicious in the relative statements, or,

b) to have it your way, the police had all the evidence they needed to implicate Lechmere, but the entire Metropolitan force were all too stupid to notice it.

Logical or illogical probabilities, you pick and choose.

What we absolutely know as facts, is that they had statements from Paul and Lechmere, and the Coroner, Swanson and Abberline were all totally satisfied. You don't have any of the evidence that they had, but reckon they were all wrong. Good luck with that!

So I suggest that the evidence indicates that "the police would surely have..." and you keep insisting that is wrong.

[Fiver]

Here we go again:

'The police would surely have [[insert imaginings here]]...'
(Rinse and repeat until Lechmere fades away...)

Uh, no.

M.

Again you misrepresent what other people say.

I am assuming that Coroner Baxter, Inspector Helson, Inspector Spratling, Inspector Abberline, and possible even PC Mizen were capable of calculating that 40 - 20 = 20.

You are the one assuming that experienced police inspectors were incapable of doing simple subtraction.

[Fiver]

As a carman starting work at 4 am, Lechmere would almost certainly have been "knocked up" by a police officer, and that PC's evidence would then have been available as a guide, presumably.

Lechmere's wife could have been a witness as well. Being illiterate doesn't mean you can't hear the clocks chime or the "Knocker upper" banging at the door.

[Mark J D]

What would be more relevant, is whatever Lechmere said in his witness statement at the time, and not errors made by newspapers. We don't have the original statement, but that is what the police considered as evidence at the time. I can't help thinking that if he told them he started off at 3. 20 am and arrived in Buck's Row at 3. 40 am they would have been very suspicious!

As a carman starting work at 4 am, Lechmere would almost certainly have been "knocked up" by a police officer, and that PC's evidence would then have been available as a guide, presumably.

Here we go again:

'The police would surely have [[insert imaginings here]]...'
(Rinse and repeat until Lechmere fades away...)

Uh, no.

M.

[Fiver]

If 'balance and objectivity' were the aim -- as opposed to simply getting Lechmere off the table so Ripperology can go back to what it was before it ended -- the newspapers that say 3:20am would also be considered. As it is, group psychology seems to have dictated that this earlier time -- however it came about -- should now be ignored altogether.

M.

If you paid attention to what other people said, you would know that the two newspapers that said Lechmere left at 3:20am have been discussed, not ignored. And that the reasonable people, whether or not they think Lechmere was the Ripper, feel the most likely explanation was that those two newspapers got the time wrong and that Lechmere said he left home at around 3:30am.

As opposed to the Cult of Lechmere, who insist that the majority of the newspapers got the time wrong and that the police who were at the inquest were too stupid to notice that it shouldn't have taken Lechemre 20 minutes to get to Bucks Row. Some Cultists even claim that Lechmere changed his story in open court from 3:20am to 3:30am and none of the papers bothered to mention it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some people alter their views to fit the facts. Some people alter the facts to fit their views.

And that's the difference between someone who thinks Charles Lechmere makes a good suspect and the Cult of Lechmere.

The Cultists take an ambiguous minority statement about standing where the body was and twist it into meaning Lechmere was seen hovering over the body of Polly Nichols. They then ignore the majority of accounts that say Lechmere was standing in the middle of the road. The non-cultist accepts the facts, but feels that finding the body is enough reason to investigate Lechmere.

The Cultists manufacture a time time gap by ignoring the time estimations of PC Mizen, PC Thain, and PC Neil in favor of the time estimation of Robert Paul. They ignore that Inspector Abberine took those estimates and concluded that Nichols body was found at 3:40am. They selectively quote the coroner saying the body was found around 3:45am and ignore that the coroner said she was killed before 3:45am. The non-cultists accept that Lechmere could have lied about when he left home.

The Cultists claim that Lechmere's actions were unique and that proves he was the Ripper. The non-cultist recognizes that Lechmere was not the only person find a victim who contacted someone else before going to the police, Lechmere was not the only witness to wear work clothes to an inquest, Lechmere was not the only witness to use a different surname in court from the one written on his marriage license, Lechmere was not the only witness to contradict PC Mizen, Lechmere was not the only witness to say he walked down the right side of the street before he found the body.

And even the standard Cult of Lechmere is more grounded in reality that the Misogyny Sect, that constantly demeans the abandoned single mother who raised Charles Lechmere to try to cram her into the 1988 FBI Ripper profile. The same Misogyny Sect frequently excuses, when it doesn't exalt as a prize catch, John Lechmere, an alcoholic bankrupt bootmaker who abandoned his family to shack up with a teenage orphan.

Or the other extreme even for the Cult of Lechmere - the Ley Line Sect. They claim a line between Mitre Square and the Gouston Street Graffito points directly to Lechmere's house, when that line runs nowhere near. Or trying to claim that a bloody rag found near the London Hospital the day after the Pichin Street Torso points to Lechmere. Even of you were to accept their assumptions that the Ripper was the TorsoMan and that the rag had anything to do with the Pinchin Street Torso and that another bloody rag found a block to the west of the Torso a couple hours later had nothing to to with it, the Ley Line still doesn't point to Charles Lechmere.

I agree Fiver. There’s a big difference between someone like Abby and someone who says “Cross’s testimony sounds too much like an innocent man so he must have been lying!”

[Herlock Sholmes]

for me, taking all the sources into account, the best we can determine is that lech left home about 3:30 and that paul entered bucks row about 3:45. if it took lech about 8 minutes to walk from his house to bucks row, then thats about 7 minutes gap. in which surely he could have killed nichols. although really, if he was the ripper, the timing is a moot point for me. because if he was, he probably left earlier than he stated if he was killing on his way to work, or he actually wasnt working on the days he killed.
i part ways with the lechmerians on this regard i think.

If Mizen, Thain and Paul were right though Abby Paul couldn’t have entered Bucks Row at 3.45 because he says that no more than 4 minutes passed before they got to Mizen (so that’s 3.41) These are approximates of course.

That said…..there’s no way of eliminating him on this point because all he needed was around 2 minutes to kill her. It’s not impossible but I see nothing apart from ‘he had time to do it’ to make me see him as suspicious. He has to be considered though and he cannot definitively be exonerated.

[Fiver]

Investigating person X does not make one beholden to prove person X was JtR, proving they were not is also useful. Research is about looking for information that provides an answer that is of yet unknown, not looking for information in order to twist it into a predetermined answer.

- Jeff

Some people alter their views to fit the facts. Some people alter the facts to fit their views.

And that's the difference between someone who thinks Charles Lechmere makes a good suspect and the Cult of Lechmere.

The Cultists take an ambiguous minority statement about standing where the body was and twist it into meaning Lechmere was seen hovering over the body of Polly Nichols. They then ignore the majority of accounts that say Lechmere was standing in the middle of the road. The non-cultist accepts the facts, but feels that finding the body is enough reason to investigate Lechmere.

The Cultists manufacture a time time gap by ignoring the time estimations of PC Mizen, PC Thain, and PC Neil in favor of the time estimation of Robert Paul. They ignore that Inspector Abberine took those estimates and concluded that Nichols body was found at 3:40am. They selectively quote the coroner saying the body was found around 3:45am and ignore that the coroner said she was killed before 3:45am. The non-cultists accept that Lechmere could have lied about when he left home.

The Cultists claim that Lechmere's actions were unique and that proves he was the Ripper. The non-cultist recognizes that Lechmere was not the only person find a victim who contacted someone else before going to the police, Lechmere was not the only witness to wear work clothes to an inquest, Lechmere was not the only witness to use a different surname in court from the one written on his marriage license, Lechmere was not the only witness to contradict PC Mizen, Lechmere was not the only witness to say he walked down the right side of the street before he found the body.

And even the standard Cult of Lechmere is more grounded in reality than the Misogyny Sect, that constantly demeans the abandoned single mother who raised Charles Lechmere to try to cram her into the 1988 FBI Ripper profile. The same Misogyny Sect frequently excuses, when it doesn't exalt as a prize catch, John Lechmere, an alcoholic bankrupt bootmaker who abandoned his family to shack up with a teenage orphan.

Or the other extreme even for the Cult of Lechmere - the Ley Line Sect. They claim a line between Mitre Square and the Gouston Street Graffito points directly to Lechmere's house, when that line runs nowhere near. Or trying to claim that a bloody rag found near the London Hospital the day after the Pichin Street Torso points to Lechmere. Even if you were to accept their assumptions that the Ripper was the TorsoMan and that the rag had anything to do with the Pinchin Street Torso and that another bloody rag found a block to the west of the Torso a couple hours later had nothing to to with it, the Ley Line still doesn't point to Charles Lechmere.