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  • Commisioner Fisherman. For 17 years I have suspected Francis Thompson for the Jack the Ripper murders and for most of that time I have written about him expressly to have him seen as a serious contender for that name. Until now, pretty much nothing has swayed me from this conviction. I don’t know about you but such a thing changes one’s life. I admit that your knowledge of certain sides of this case is overwhelming. Regards my suspect. I think it will be seen as either ironic or obvious that in the very year that I publish a full account of my theory through my horror novel, You give us Lechmere. You say that pulling apart my embarrassing argument is easier than doing so to a Lego toy. (You have honestly never tried to pull apart a kids Lego toy. I would say that playing with your argument is akin to trying to pull apart my small son’s Lego toy for him when he has practically welded to thin sheets together. I almost chipped a tooth I did!) In this little game of chess I must confess after all these years it would be curious for me seeing the world completely free of my suspect. Part of me wants to lose. Though to accept your conclusion would be immature. I’m sorry but I’m going to put away the chessboard. Put away childish things. I’m offering you a draw. Game theorists would describe this as a zero sum game in which neither win. (Well actually you would because many hundreds if not thousands more people now prefer your suspect over mine.) As I see it, the foundation of your augment contains two main premises leading to your conclusion.

    {Argument A}
    Premise A: A Lechmere was found with the body of a Ripper Victim.
    Premise B: Lechmere was dishonest.

    Conclusion C: Lachmere is Jack the Ripper.

    (If I may? I’d like to rearrange this piece of logic.

    Premise A: Lachmere was a dishonest man.
    Premise B: Jack the Ripper was Lachmere.

    Conclusion C: Jack the Ripper was dishonest.)

    If your argument wins then we must then conclude that a witness was shown to have lied to police in the Whitechapel murder investigation.

    {Argument B}
    Premise A: Lechmere was a witness in the case.
    Premise B: Lechmere was a dishonest man.

    Conclusion: C: A witnesses was dishonest.

    The slippery slope of this Premise B, in this argument, is that witnesses in the Whitechapel investigation were dishonest. No fit person would rely upon dishonest witnesses. By rendering the testimonies of witnesses in the case unreliable. You are left with absolutely nothing to support your own conclusion. With everything you have laid out around your suspect’s quality of honesty, you question the legitimacy of all Ripper witness. One cannot be certain of all the events surrounding the murder of Mary Nichols. Things such as whether your suspect did or did not see a police officer, the brightness of the street, and the amount of blood before it was washed away by a stable hand at 4.30 that morning, are like most things about the case, probably forever lost in the past. I accept that you have got some good professional authority backing your claim of a suspect being a semi literate carman. (You know I don’t have Sherlock homes on my side, just the man who created him. Between 1892 and 1905 Conan Doyle investigated the Ripper murders. In 1905 he was in the East End investigating the case. In 1892 visited the Scotland Yard's Black Museum, Which displayed a photo of the mutilated Mary Kelly and the original Dear Boss letter. In 1894, Doyle told an American journalist, his views of the Ripper as,

    'a man accustomed to the use of a pen. Having determined that much, we can not avoid the inference that there must be somewhere letters which this man has written over his own name, or documents or accounts that could readily be traced to him. Oddly enough, the police did not, as far as I know, think of that and so they failed to accomplish anything.'

    This is of course not surprising for a murder case named after the Dear Boss letters. A case made most famous by a murderer who is supposed to have written letters to the press and to people involved in seeking his capture. Letters which have caused phrases like my ‘knife is so nice and sharp’, ‘I ate the other half’ and ‘funny little games’ inexorably part of Ripper folklore.)

    I have little backing on the doings of my suspect on August 31st 1888 and confess things happened that night that I may never know. In comparison what you have done from your premises is remarkable. At first glance your solution is so mundane so obvious. Perhaps commendably, you speak of your suspect and these murders in a very strict sense. Focusing on, a quarter square mile only. Then there is me with my theory which, at first glance, depicts a suspect that seems so alien so unbelievable, that most people are surprised I think he should taken seriously. (Stranger too that you a commissioner of the Casebook realm, would condescend to respectfully respond to lowly Cadet, particularly one who comes forward armed chiefly with a premise illustrated by a horror novel that the Ripper was anything but a lowly carman, and more than diabolical evil, but the devil himself.)

    The thread, ‘Lets get Lechmere off the hook!’ might have only had 1 reply. So far it has had 670! You have fielded every ball thrown at you superbly, but with respect, here’s some easy reasoning. Premise A, of your first argument is really important to your theory and everything; including Cross’s route to work and addresses of his near relatives revolves around it. It's the opportunity in my 4 Pillars of Truth (the others being ability, motive and weapon) No wonder you refute my suspect’s opportunity. (Even though I have told you that my homeless suspect probably walked nightly through Whitechapel and was not expected to furnish an alibi or be missed when he was out walking the streets at all hours of the night.)

    My argument, unlike yours, looks for the good in people instead. It does not defy the laws of common sense by causing us to doubt the very witness to the case we are researching. My argument allows for people to make mistakes. People like Cross, Mizen, Paul or my suspect. My Premise argues that my suspect, who was a writer and man of letters told the truth.

    {Argument C}
    Premise A: Thompson was an honest man.
    Premise B: Thompson wrote that he was Jack the Ripper.

    Conclusion: C: Thompson was Jack the Ripper.

    Premise A of this argument is backed up by my suspect. There is no evidence to say he, a devoutly practicing Catholic, lied when he wrote to his Publisher whom I believe was his sole co-conspirator, that much of what he wrote was not fiction. A great deal of my suspects poetry and prose contain thinly disguised references to murders. Both his published and unpublished works illustrate, especially when the facts of the Jack the Ripper murders are considered, not only the details of these very crimes, but his motive. Some critics will say that we cannot place any credence on my suspect’s verse as indication of any actual happening or admittance of guilt and that it is all merely fiction and art. My suspect would not agree. In January 1890, writing from a priory, my suspect explained his verse to his publisher. My suspect told of his fears that his writings would display more than mere artistic license,

    'I am painfully conscious that they display me, in every respect, at my morally weakest...often verse written as I write it is nothing less than a confessional, a confessional far more intimate than the sacerdotal one. That touches only your sins….if I wrote further in poetry, I should write down my own fame.’

    What concerned my suspect so much was talk with his publisher of the eventual release of his only recently completed piece of fiction. The story, whose writer admits to murdering a woman with a knife, is about a killer whose crimes rocks a metropolis and propels the criminal into immortal fame. It was a story so surreal it could be only by matched by the Ripper crimes which were in itself a story of a murders in such a small area made world famous, or a life as fantastic as my suspect. One who in the ending days of 1888, by a strange twist of fate, was transformed from a failed doctor, living homeless, into a famed horror writer. (They say I’m a doctor now ha ha) This was a far different lifestyle from the one he lived during the Ripper murders while he was still homeless wrapped from the cold night air in a Limehouse homeless shelter. (Not ironically, as the Ripper wrote in his letter, 'That joke about Leather Apron gave me real fits,' my suspect’s publisher had his son write in a biography upon my suspect’s sleeping habits and society while homeless, and in particular my suspect’s association with that item of clothing and the types of people he chose to associate with,

    ‘The murderer to whom he makes several allusions...In a common lodging-house he met and had talk with the man who was supposed by the group about the fire to be a murderer uncaught. And when it was not in a common lodging-house. It was a Shelter or Refuge that he would lie in one of the oblong boxes without lids, containing a mattress and a leather apron or coverlet, that are the fashion, he says, in all Refuges.’)

    Premise B is supported by what he wrote. (This right now, by a ridiculous possibility, might, for the world to see, be some of the actual murder confession of yours truly, Jack the Ripper.) My suspect’s story, “The End Crowning Work”, was written during the autumn of 1889, which was on the first anniversary of the Ripper murders. (I believe it was the only way my suspect knew how to confess to the murders.) My suspect wrote it from the top floor of a secluded isolated country monastery. A building surrounded by high walls and guarded by watchdogs patrolling the grounds. Dogs that attacked my suspect when he tried step outside. In my suspect’s story he hints that his tale of the murder of women with lust of fame is true. My suspect wrote,

    ‘If confession indeed give ease, I who am deprived of all other confession, may yet find some appeasement in confessing to this paper. With the scourge of inexorable recollection, I will tear open my scars. With the cuts of pitiless analysis, I make the post-mortem examine of my crime.’

    My suspect then wrote in his story how he killed her, (I you need me to I can detail the resemblance between the murder of the woman in my suspect’s story and that of Mary Kelly)

    ‘At that moment, with a deadly voice the accomplice-hour gave forth its sinister command. I swear I struck not the first blow. Some violence seized my hand and drove the poniard down. Whereat she cried; and I, frenzied, dreading detection, dreading above all her awakening, - I struck again and again.’

    My suspect writes in his story that is also not a story, how he feels afterwards,
    ‘I know you and myself. I have what I have. I work for the present. Now, relief unspeakable! that vindictive sleuth-hound of my sin has at last lagged from the trail; I have had a year of respite,’.. What crime can be interred so cunningly, but it will toss in its grave, and tumble the sleeked earth above it?... Guilt, indeed, makes babies of the wisest. Nothing happened; absolutely nothing.... I do not repent, it is a thing for inconsequent weaklings...’

    Let’s think about all the available evidence we are ever likely to get while comparing your argument with mine argument.

    Yours:
    Premise A: Lechmere was found with the body of a Ripper Victim.
    Premise B: Lechmere was dishonest.
    Conclusion C: Lechmere is Jack the Ripper.

    Mine:
    Premise A: Thompson was honest.
    Premise B: Thompson hinted that he was Jack the Ripper.
    Conclusion: C: Thompson was Jack the Ripper.

    Yours Respectfully,

    Cadet Patterson.
    Author of

    "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

    http://www.francisjthompson.com/

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
      Robert: 14 yards? If you say so, Fish.



      Answer me this: IF Lechmere DID lie consciously about his name and if he lied about the other PC and if he played down the seriousness of the errand - where would that put you? If you knew this to be true, what would your reasoning about it be?

      The best,
      Fisherman
      Come on, Fish! Are you going to keep at it from this aburd angle? I mean, IF Cross killed Nichols and Chapman and Stride and Eddowes and Kelly.........then we was probably "Jack the Ripper". We can take these IFs all the way across the goal line, if you like.

      Comment


      • Is there going to be a book about Lechmere then? If so does anyone know how long until it's released? I would be very interested in reading it.

        One of my problems with Lechmere as the culprit revolves around behavioural science. I am not saying that murderers cannot lead double lives, but in this case I would expect to see evidence of some sort of misconduct somewhere in his life.
        Last edited by J6123; 12-11-2014, 10:19 AM.

        Comment


        • This may be a silly suggestion, but could he have reverted to the name Cross at the inquest as a means of psychologically distancing himself from the event, which might be an indication of guilt?

          Just an idea.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
            Trevor Marriott:

            This is reliant on timings and honesty and both seem to be lacking

            Are you calling me dishonest, Trevor?

            Fisherman
            I notice you have chose not to comment on my post #682

            I should also point out to you one of a number of questions I recently put to a forensic pathologist along with his answer this was in relation to blood loss via throat cutting

            Q. Would there be very much blood loss from this method of killing.

            A. Blood loss could have been great if major neck vessels were severed. It is possible for much of the bleeding to remain within the body, though, so it would not necessarily result in a large volume of blood being visible externally.

            In today's world there is always going to be an expert who will be prepared to challenge the opinion of another expert. So don't think your experts opinions are irrefutable.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
              No i was referring to the police
              So let me get this straight, since I find what you are saying more than a little confusing - is it Andy Griffiths you are calling dishonest?

              The best,
              Fisherman

              Comment


              • Robert: Hi Fish

                IF Crossmere lied to Mizen.


                The evidence suggests it very clearly: "Another PC awaits you there"

                IF the police never investigated Crossmere.


                The evidence quite clearly tells the story: They never got his real name, so they did not make a thorough check.

                IF Paul was round the corner.

                He need not have been around the corner, as I pointed out earlier. Once you are moving away from a conversation and not paying attention to it, you will not hear what is said.

                Or IF Crossmere and Paul made a secret agreement.

                Which is one more possiblity.

                IF Crossmere whispered to Mizen.

                He need not have.

                IF the police never knew Crossmere's 'real' name.


                They apparently didn´t.

                IF Crossmere was a psychopath.

                He certainly was, if he was the killer. Everything is in line with what a psychopath would do in such a case - the disregard for other people´s sufferings and the lies and "gameplaying" if you like.

                IF Crossmere can be linked to the other murders

                That is not something that needs to be done to conclude that he could have been the killer, Robert - that only needs to be done to prove that he did the others too.

                IF.....
                Then Crossmere could be the man, my son.


                Yes, he could. And the evidence suggests that he was.

                Why would we guess that he on this one and only authority contact chose the name Cross? Why? WHat evidence is there to corroborate it? It is a blatand deviation, and we all know that.

                Why would we opt for Mizen when we look for the liar? Why would we convict the good copper instead of a carman we KNOW gave a false name? And whose roads we KNOW would potentially tkae him right past the murder sites at the murder times? Why?

                Much as I think we need to give every man accused of being a killer the benefit of a doubt, i DON´T think that we should look away from the implications. They single him out.

                The best
                Fisherman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                  So let me get this straight, since I find what you are saying more than a little confusing - is it Andy Griffiths you are calling dishonest?

                  The best,
                  Fisherman
                  Have you lost the plot now ?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Robert View Post
                    Fish, we're back to 'beside,' I see.

                    That didn't last long, did it?
                    We actually never discussed "beside" before. We discussed "by the side of".

                    And since he was both, I prefer that wording to the much more complicated "close enough to have been her killer".

                    Now that has been established, you may see something that lasts much longer now. That should make your day.

                    Now, Robert, go find yourself a 7,5 meter stretch. Ask somebody who worships your superior Ripperological insights to worship you by lying down at the end of the stretch. Then place yourself lying in the middle of it.

                    Next: Ask the person lying at the far end (but not outside the 7,5 yard limit) to stretch his arms out, and form like a cross (!).
                    If that person is 1.75 meters tall, he will have around 1.75 meters between his fingertips too.

                    Then you do the same yourself, form a cross with your arms, and with your back on the middle of the stretch.

                    The distance between your hands will now be one meter and twenty centimeters, if you are also 1.75.

                    That is how close they were if Lechmere was standing in the middle of the road. And that effectively IS by the side of, alongside and beside.

                    And you are making a complete ass out of yourself by contesting that, unless you can PROVE that "by the side of" alludes to a figure smaller than 1 meter and 20 centimeters.

                    And that´s end of THAT particular discussion for me. If you want to go on: proof, please. Not personal interpretations, proof.

                    The best,
                    Fisherman

                    Comment


                    • I stepped out of the repetitive debate, and desperate theorising, so unsure if the precise 'evidence' held within Blinks folder, and shown to Scobie and Griffiths, has been revealed.

                      Has it?

                      Monty
                      Monty

                      https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                      Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                      http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                      Comment


                      • Richard Patterson!

                        That was a very long post.

                        It did not convince me of anything at all about Thompson, other than your belief in his viability.

                        And since I knew that already...

                        You cannot say that Thompson had the opportunity and things like that. That methodology would leave us with a million suspects. We must play by the rules in these matters. We don´t know that Thompson had the opportunity, and the more likely suggestion is that he had not, although we cannot prove that he didn´t.

                        THAT is what applies.

                        You say that I know a lot about Lechmere. And yes, I do. It is one of the prerequisites to be able to assess what he was about.

                        You call him a semiliterate person. Why would you do that? I think he was a fully competent writer and reader. His grandfather was brought up as a very rich man and was most probably a very capable reader and writer. He would have handed that down to John Allen Lechmere, Charles´father, who in his turn would quite probably have been a lot more literate than most Eastenders on account of his heritage. Charles is but one generation away from that, so I think he is a very good bid for a literate man.

                        But you call him semiliterate anyway.

                        Lechmere married an illiterate woman. Have you read about how psychiatrists suggest that many psychopaths consort with people thet regard inferior, so that they can dominate them and keep them prisoners of their own minds? You should, it makes for interesting reading!

                        As for the points of accusation against Lechmere, you are reducing them to the name and how he may have lied.

                        How many men do you reckon went through Bucks Row at around 3.45 in the morning? That street was totally empty, according to Neil. None of the other PC:s spoke of having seen anybody. The same thing applied to the watchmen. It was deserted.

                        Lechmere and Paul were seemingly the only ones passing by at that approximate time.

                        How many people, with a reason to pass through Bucks Row at around 3.45 that morning, would then have a working place that would give them an equal choice between Old Montague Street and Hanbury Street?

                        Look at all the factors. Weigh them all in. "The coincidences mount up in his case" was what Scobie said, and Griffiths said that there were many points in the material that seemingly pointed to Lechmere.

                        They recognized that it was not just the name and the potential lying. Once we notice such things, we should say."A-ha, so he could have been the man. Let´s look at his routes and se what that gives!"

                        The East End had thousands of streets. But the killings follow Lechmere´s logical working treks.
                        Bucks Row, Hanbury Street, Dorset Street, Old Montague Street - that´s four, ALL OF THEM logically leading him from Bucks Row to Broad Street.

                        Why is not one single of these four murders perpetrated on one of the many thousands of OTHER East End streets that he would NOT have taken? Mathematically, how large is the chance?

                        The nameswop, the fact that he was alone with the victim for an andefined period of time, the covering up of the body, the strange approach towards Paul, the potential lies about the severity of the errand, about who spoke to Mizen, about a second PC being in place, should be a hundred times more than enough to see the need to put this man on the suspects list.

                        And then we check his routes.

                        The best,
                        Fisherman

                        Comment


                        • Trevor Marriott: I notice you have chose not to comment on my post #682

                          But I have - I asked you who you are calling dishonest. That is a comment on your post.

                          It is a post that shows ignorance in a number of respects. You say that the doctor put the time of death to 3.30, which is very wrong, for example. Llewellyn was not in place until 4.10 (and quite possibly even later), and he said "I believe she had not been dead more than half-an-hour", which points to 3.40 - or later. "Not for more than half an hour" does not mean half an hour - it means half an hour OR LESS.

                          It is possible for much of the bleeding to remain within the body, though, so it would not necessarily result in a large volume of blood being visible externally.

                          How does this come into the discussion, Trevor? The discussion is about how long she would have bled. Of course all the blood that is below the opening/s on the body will stay in the body - but it won´t prolong the bleeding process. On the contrary, if the opening/s in the body are all placed high up on it, much less blood will leave the body. And much less blood leaves more quickly than very extensive amounts of blood.

                          Of course, Nichols was on her back and with her neck cut to the spine, so large amounts will have escaped the body. But not large enough for her to bleed from 3.30 to 3.50, which we need to believe if we were to think she was killed 3.30. If we are foolish enough to suggest 3.20, then we need her to bleed for half an hour.

                          And a reality check.

                          The best,
                          Fisherman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                            I stepped out of the repetitive debate, and desperate theorising, so unsure if the precise 'evidence' held within Blinks folder, and shown to Scobie and Griffiths, has been revealed.

                            Has it?

                            Monty
                            No.

                            And I would not call the theorizing "desperate" - we can´t be totally sure that he WAS the killer, so theorizing to the contrary is legit. Although it DOES get repetitive.

                            The best,
                            Fisherman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                              No.

                              And I would not call the theorizing "desperate" - we can´t be totally sure that he WAS the killer, so theorizing to the contrary is legit. Although it DOES get repetitive.

                              The best,
                              Fisherman
                              I see, thanks

                              Monty
                              Monty

                              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                              Comment


                              • The work of Michael Connor should be acknowledged here. He also speculated that Lechmere was delivering to Spitalfields market which at least gives him a legitimate reason to be in the area, other carmen lived at 29 Hanbury street, as Amelia Richardson stated, some leaving at one o clock, others at four or five, to work at the market.
                                I do wonder how she got her packing cases delivered, there being no mention she owned any form of transport, presumably she or her customers used a carrier, in which case there is at least the possibility of familiarity with 29 Hanbury street. on behalf of someone, and a carman would certainly be amongst them.
                                All the best.

                                Comment

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