Charles Allen Lechmere - new suspect?

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman


A nomadic lifestyle? How do you figure?

He moved from dwelling to dwelling during his formative years. Thatīs what I am referring to.

Isn't the earliest mention of his "close contact" with the horse flesh business in 1891, his mother's occupation?
How does that relate him to the supposedly desensitizing butchery business? Also, would it be possible for you to mention which scientific studies you are referring to?

The earliest indication of Lechmere being linked to the butchery trade stems from how the Broad Street depot was very much about delivering meat. After that, the 1891 matter is the first safe recording as far as I know. We know, however, that the Lechmere family was deeply involved within the horse flesh business, although we donīt know where it begins. I am speculating that Charles Lechmere was possibly participating in it early on, and if he was always linked to the Broad Street depot from itīs opening back in 1868, we seemingly have some sort of a meat industry connection right there, although to what exact degree, we cannot tell.

As for the research on the desensitizing effects of the meat and butchery trade, this passage points to it:

Amy Fitzgerald, a criminology professor at the University of Windsor in Canada, has found a strong correlation between the presence of a large slaughterhouse and high crime rates in U.S. communities. One might object that a slaughterhouse town’s disproportionate population of poor, working-class males might be the real cause, but Fitzgerald controlled for that possibility by comparing her data to counties with comparable populations employed in factory-like operations. In her study released in 2007, the abattoir stood out as the factor most likely to spike crime statistics. Slaughterhouse workers, in essence, were “desensitized,” and their behavior outside of work reflected it.

It stems from the link https://greenstarsproject.org/2020/0...nditions-ptsd/

I remember that there are other scientists who reached found similar results, but I cannot remember their names. I hope the example I provide will suffice for you.

PS. Just noticed that this passage followed on the earlier one:

A 2016 paper by psychology researchers at the University of South Africa looks at the psycho-social consequences of becoming a slaughterer. It reports on worker interviews, covering topics from the trauma of their first kill to recurring nightmares and feelings of shame, fear, emotional detachment, socially rejection, and violence.

The risk potential of employees suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome was evident throughout the stages of being a slaughterfloor employee.

A 2009 paper used rigorous statistical methods to look at the impact of slaughterhouses and local crime rates. The authors, from Michigan State University, reference Upton Sinclair’s 1906 novel, The Jungle (which shone a light on the meat industry) and point out that almost no empirical investigations had been carried out to test the link between slaughterhouses and crime until now, 100 years later. Their conclusion:

The findings indicate that slaughterhouse employment increases total arrest rates, arrests for violent crimes, arrests for rape, and arrests for other sex offenses in comparison with other industries.

Here’s how the Yale Global Health Review explains the kind of PTSD that slaughterhouse workers suffer from:

A type of post-traumatic stress disorder called perpetration-induced traumatic stress (PITS). Unlike many forms of traumatic stress disorders in which sufferers have been victims in a traumatic situation, sufferers of PITS are the “causal participant” in a traumatic situation. In other words, they are the direct reason for another being’s trauma. Living with the knowledge of their actions causes symptoms similar to those of individuals who are recipients of trauma: substance abuse, anxiety issues, depression, and dissociation from reality.

So, there we are. It is an rather an extensive field of research, it would seem.

[MrBarnett]

Of course, meat was not the only commodity handled through Broad Street, and delivering already butchered - and possibly cooked - meat is not the same as participating in the slaughtering of animals. Presumably it’s the killing of the animals and it’s attendant cruelty that can disturb those involved in it.

[MrBarnett]

The evidence is scant, but my money would be on Charles Lechmere having carted cooked horse flesh that had come into London from the provinces, either to Harrison, Barber or to other horsemeat wholesalers.

[Fisherman]

Of course, meat was not the only commodity handled through Broad Street, and delivering already butchered - and possibly cooked - meat is not the same as participating in the slaughtering of animals. Presumably it’s the killing of the animals and it’s attendant cruelty that can disturb those involved in it.

I think one has to read the scientific material to find out, Gary. I believe the handling of large slabs of meat could perhaps quaify as desensitizing too - after all, it is about animals having been killed and cut up. Then again, I rarely feel desensitized when putting a pack of pork chops in my shopping bag. Maybe the starting line is drawn somwhere between the two...?

[Fisherman]

The evidence is scant, but my money would be on Charles Lechmere having carted cooked horse flesh that had come into London from the provinces, either to Harrison, Barber or to other horsemeat wholesalers.

The evidence is, as you say, scant. My own gut feeling is that the Lechmeres were engaged in the horse flesh and cats meat business early on, and that it only grew to be a family tradition as they went along.
Basically, itīs a toss-up.

To me, it is not as if we need to establish this connection from 1873 and onwards before we have a tremendous case against the carman. Then again, you already knew that, didnīt you...?

[caz]

And so it goes. We have all witnessed how an uniformed poster who pretentiously calls himself the Baron has tried - and misreably failed - to prove that Lechmere could not have been the killer.

Nothing new there, Iīd say.

Now, anyone who feels like "debating" with this remarkably ignorant bag of farts is welcome to do so. Me, I have a tad too much self-respect to prolong the misery and so I will leave our gas inflated friend to his ramblings.

Sage advice, Fishy.

Anyway, Bag O'Gas - also known as Al Terego - is allegedly going to be tied up this coming Saturday, proving that Maybrick could not have written the Maybrick diary. He has quite forgotten that this was proved years ago when the handwriting was found not to match.

While Lechmere may or may not have been a psychopath, I don't think you need waste any more time or trouble on the BOG. He just enjoys his fishing.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

I would like to know why the carmen, Cross and Paul, who presumably left home for work each day at approximately the same time, and took the same route to work at approximately the same walking rate, were strangers.

Why had they never before encountered each other.

Hi Simon,

Assuming they were walking in the same direction, they would only have seen each other from behind, so unless one had overtaken the other at some point, looked back and begun a conversation, I can well imagine how they might not have known one another by sight when Cross saw his 'tarpaulin', realised it was a woman as he got closer, and then Paul came along shortly after that.

Love,

Caz
X

[Simon Wood]

Hi Caz,

Many thanks for your very inventive answer.

However, given that their routes converged, on some mornings they may have walked the Brady Street to Baker's Row route together.

But alas we'll never know.

Stay safe.

Simon

[The Baron]

He has quite forgotten that this was proved years ago when the handwriting was found not to match.

I noticed a weak tone and fearness in your voice Caz, A remarkable regression from the die heart Diary defender Caz we all knew, how are you going to handle these remaining endless-looking hours of waiting and expectations before the fall of your legend?


Do you think you are the center of the universe?! and every Diary related research has to be connecting to you and your beliefs, let those remaining 2 or 3 persons who still think the Diary is genuine have something new to ponder, maybe the day is coming and we will all celebrate an earth empty of scrapbook-infected human.


The Baron

[etenguy]

Hi Caz,

Many thanks for your very inventive answer.

However, given that their routes converged, on some mornings they may have walked the Brady Street to Baker's Row route together.

But alas we'll never know.

Stay safe.

Simon

I am sorry to say that after living in my current house for nearly 20 years, I would not even recognise my neighbours from 2 doors down or further away and yet I'm sure I will have passed them many times on the way to the tube or local shops.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Etenguy,

I find that incredibly sad.

Perhaps you should get out more.

Be safe.

Simon

[etenguy]

That would be nice, but as you know, no such records exist. No records of good or bad behaviour is there, the river of time has floated that material out to sea long ago. But I somethimes ponder the 1876 incident when a carman named Charles Cross and working for Pickfords ran over and killed a young boy with his cart. It was decided that it was an accident - but from the outset, the father of the boy, who had spoken to bystanders, was apparently informed that the driver had acted recklessly.

These kinds of things stick in my mind. Why is it that this kind of accusations should surface when Charles Cross happens to run over a young kid and kill him? Bad luck? Then again, the carmen of Pickfords had a nasty reputation of being reckless, and so it could perhaps have been this that coloured peopleīs judgment.

It nevertheless dovetails with the rest of the evidence in the overall case against Lechmere. He doesnīt seem to be able to get a break, does he?

Indeed, Fisherman.

I believe you have interviewed / chatted with descendent(s) of Charles Lechmere, at least Susan Lechmere. Were there no stories of the man who found the first Ripper victim circulating in the family?

[etenguy]

Hi Etenguy,

I find that incredibly sad.

Perhaps you should get out more.

Be safe.

Simon

It is sad, but I don't think it is so unusual in London these days. Of course, Whitechapel 1888 was quite different.

[Kattrup]

He moved from dwelling to dwelling during his formative years. Thatīs what I am referring to.

Ok. I probably haven't kept up with recent Lechmere-developments, but I thought young Charles only moved like three or four times in his first 20 years?

[MrBarnett]

That would be nice, but as you know, no such records exist. No records of good or bad behaviour is there, the river of time has floated that material out to sea long ago. But I somethimes ponder the 1876 incident when a carman named Charles Cross and working for Pickfords ran over and killed a young boy with his cart. It was decided that it was an accident - but from the outset, the father of the boy, who had spoken to bystanders, was apparently informed that the driver had acted recklessly.

These kinds of things stick in my mind. Why is it that this kind of accusations should surface when Charles Cross happens to run over a young kid and kill him? Bad luck? Then again, the carmen of Pickfords had a nasty reputation of being reckless, and so it could perhaps have been this that coloured peopleīs judgment.

It nevertheless dovetails with the rest of the evidence in the overall case against Lechmere. He doesnīt seem to be able to get a break, does he?

Hi Fish,

I too often ponder that incident.

If the Charles Cross who was involved in the child's death was the same Charles Cross who worked at Broad Street, what might he have been doing up in Islington?

The incident occurred a few streets away from the area known as ‘Belle Isle’, an area described by Charles Booth as ‘the chief seat of the London Horse slaughterers’. It would eventually be the location of Harrison, Barber’s head office, but in 1876, it was where John Harrison ran his business.

Such was the close connection between Harrison, Barber and Pickfords, that when HB was created in 1886, Pickfords’ Horse Manager, William McCulloch, was on the HB board of directors. HB had the contract to dispose of Pickfords’ superfluous horses.

Also, HB received boiled horseflesh from provincial knacker’s via Broad Street, where Pickfords were the designated agent of the LNWR.

And to cap it all, Charles Lechmere’s son, while working as a cats meat salesman/carter, was living in tiny Winthrop Street a couple of doors from HB’s knackers yard.

When I consider all of that, I find it suggestive of a connection between the Lechmeres and HB.

Gary