A Cross by any other name...smells like JtR?

[Lechmere]

He went to the inquest in his workclothes so my presumption is that he didn't tell his wife he was going - so his attendance at the inquest needn't have come to his wife's attention.

[Lechmere]

In the course of the Ripper case we know numerous alternative names used by people for all sorts of reasons.
For example Isenschmid's daughter Kate used the name Lawrence unofficially - but we know as it was recorded in a court case.
His other daughter Minnie unofficially called herself Smith, which is mentioned in her probate records.
Lechmere's probate records only mention Lechmere.
Do we know of other innocent witnesses in this case who hid their true identity as they were bashful about being linked to the murders?
Isn't giving evidence to the police in a murder investigation just as 'official' - much more so - than completing a trade directory entry. If he was known locally as Cross then surely he would list his business under Cross so his buddies could look his shop up?

[lynn cates]

finding out

Hello Edward. Thanks.

Are you suggesting she never found out about his involvement?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

O Cross, Cross, wherefore art thou Cross?

Hello Edward. Thanks.

Using an alias for Isenschmid, in an English speaking country, makes good sense.

"Do we know of other innocent witnesses in this case who hid their true identity as they were bashful about being linked to the murders?"

Don't know their motivation, but I could give a litany of alias names.

"Isn't giving evidence to the police in a murder investigation just as 'official' - much more so - than completing a trade directory entry."

Not if you are just having your name taken down. Signing is something else--as in the case of my professor.

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

But he didn't 'just have his name taken down' did he.

I would be interested to see your list of people who hid their identity.

I would also be interested to see if you can produce a list of people who didn't want to be mentioned in relation to this case, or any evidence to that effect.

[DVV]

I have identified upwards of 17 or so unsolved murders (or deaths at least) of women in London over a twenty year period of a similar age and class.
I doubt 'Jack the Ripper' killed them all but could well be in the frame for a significant number.

Hi Lechmere,

Don't get mean. Patty is far more prodigal with Sickert.

[Bridewell]

i think the ripper was the torso murderer. the only way he could know whitechapel so well and plan the murders he had to live there. it seems the ripper as torso is the obvious explanation.

Two questions occur to me:-

What makes you think that the killer necessarily knew Whitechapel well? All the murders were committed within a relatively short distance (& easily retraceable route) of one of the main London thoroughfares.

What evidence is there that the murders were planned, rather than opportunistic?

[Mayerling]

For what it is worth, in 1887 there was widespread discussion in the British Isles of the Coachward Poisoning Case in Ireland, where the murderer, Dr. Philip Cross, was guilty of killing his wife, and then (having pulled that off successfully as a natural death) ruined it for himself by marrying his children's "nanny" (a Ms Effie Skinner) within three months of the death of his wife. Cross was executed by James Berry in January 1888. Maybe he was a distant relative of Charles Lechmere's step father.

Jeff

[GUT]

G'day Bridewell

Two questions occur to me:-

What makes you think that the killer necessarily knew Whitechapel well? All the murders were committed within a relatively short distance (& easily retraceable route) of one of the main London thoroughfares.

What evidence is there that the murders were planned, rather than opportunistic?

My feelings exactly, anyone limiting the scope to a local who planned is, in my opinion, limiting the range suspects far more than the evidence permits.

[RockySullivan]

Two questions occur to me:-

What makes you think that the killer necessarily knew Whitechapel well? All the murders were committed within a relatively short distance (& easily retraceable route) of one of the main London thoroughfares.

What evidence is there that the murders were planned, rather than opportunistic?

hi bridewell...to me it appears the killer would only take the extreme risk in committing the ripper murders if he covered all his bases first. Studying the police beats...knowing small hidden spots to kill where he was positive he wouldnt be disturbed. He wouldnt just kill anywhere without watching that spot for weeks and being certain no one would disturb him at the time of the murder. He would have to know all possible escape routes in order to avoid anyone seeing him. A visitor to whitechapel could not have done these murders. This is someone who pre-planned the killings weeks in advance.

Another thing is most of the victims residing at flower & dean. The killer obviously knew all the victims...they are clearly chosen and not random or they wouldnt all be from the exact same intersection.

[GUT]

G'day Rocky

Another thing is most of the victims residing at flower & dean. The killer obviously knew all the victims...they are clearly chosen and not random or they wouldnt all be from the exact same intersection.

If they had all lived at Flower and Dean you MIGHT have a point, but any proposition that the killer knew all the victims can only be a guess.

[John Wheat]

that's exaxtly why i think the ripper was the torso murderer. the only way he could know whitechapel so well and plan the murders he had to live there. it seems the ripper as torso is the obvious explanation. It explains how Jack knew how to remove organs...he had plenty of practice cutting up bodies.

To Rocky

But the Torso Killer left body parts all over London, not just in Whitechapel. Also why the change of M.O. And thirdly which murders do you attribute to the Torso Killer are you including the murders from 1873-74 and 1884?

Cheers John

[Damaso Marte]

Maybe not but then you need a good hypothesis as to why he stopped.

I disagree. We don't know enough about the killer to be able to assert that he would have kept killing until prevented.

We can at best say that given what serial killers generally do, he probably kept killing until he was stopped, died, arrested, etc. But this is a probability, not a fact: who's to say that Jack wasn't in the minority who do stop killing on their own?

[Lechmere]

How many known serial killer stopped because they committed suicide or because they were locked up in a mental asylum?
Most known serial killers stop because they are caught.
There have been a substantial number of serial killer who were never caught.
Is it supposed that they carried on killing until they themselves died a natural death?

On another note there are obviously lots of things associated with this case that we can only guess at. But we can take informed guesses.

[GUT]

How many known serial killer stopped because they committed suicide or because they were locked up in a mental asylum?
Most known serial killers stop because they are caught.
There have been a substantial number of serial killer who were never caught.
Is it supposed that they carried on killing until they themselves died a natural death?

On another note there are obviously lots of things associated with this case that we can only guess at. But we can take informed guesses.

Well a lot of them stopped because they were sent to prison.

The ones who's identity we do not know may have continued or may well have committed suicide or been locked in a mental asylum, if we don't know who they are, then clearly we don't KNOW who they killed or what end they met and that is slightly more than in informed guess.