Why Cross Was Almost Certainly Innocent

[Herlock Sholmes]

Wool warehaouse pointed!



I'm pretty busy at the moment, but I will have some new insights on what could seen and by whom that I can hopefully post later.

Well would you believe it! Actually yes I would. Is there such a condition as ‘map blindness?’ That’s how I’d describe myself. Maps, directions etc.

Cheers Dusty. I still deserve an though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I believe it was mentioned in the Echo coverage of the inquest published 3 September.

https://www.casebook.org/press_reports/echo/18880903.html

Cheers, George

Thanks George. Isn’t it strange. Forty years and the term ‘Wool Warehouse’ hadn’t stuck in my mind.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Kunochan,

When I proposed this possibility a little while ago it was meet with a distinct lack of enthusiasm. The police found that Brown's stable yard door was locked, but I've not been able to find out whether that meant pad locked or bolted from the inside (or outside).

The theory is, Jack strangles Poly and begins the mutilations. He hears Cross coming and conceals himself nearby. He hears the carmen talking and Paul say that he thought he could hear her breathing. The carmen depart and Jack ensures Poly's silence by cutting her throat (and learning a lesson for his future murders). Llewellyn stated that in his opinion the throat cut was made after the mutilations, and it would explain why neither carmen noticed the open wound in the neck.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

It’s a clever suggestion and certainly one that I hadn’t heard before. If my reaction was a bit ‘lukewarm’ it’s only because I’m convinced that as soon as he heard footsteps the killer would have been gone. Your suggestion is certain something that we can’t disprove though.

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

It’s a clever suggestion and certainly one that I hadn’t heard before. If my reaction was a bit ‘lukewarm’ it’s only because I’m convinced that as soon as he heard footsteps the killer would have been gone. Your suggestion is certain something that we can’t disprove though.

Hi Herlock,

Stepping into the stable yard would have been a quick way of disappearing without being heard running away. The stables had been recently sold and the fittings were in the process of disposal. Apparently the gate had a smaller access door (like at Berner St) and there was access to Winthrop Street through the Stores Room that was at the back of the stable yard. The stores room would be the more likely to have an external lock to allow Brown to bolt the stable door from the inside and leave via the Stores Room. There is opinion that Polly may have been expecting the stable door to be unlocked when she took clients there, and if it was Jack could have slipped into the stable yard, bolted the door, and listened to the carmen discussing whether Polly was still alive. After emerging and cutting Polly's throat he bolts the gate behind him and leaves via the stores room, assuming it had a lock, like at Millers Court, that locked when you left but could still be opened without a key from the inside. He'd have to get past Malshaw, but he admitted at the inquest that he sometimes dozed.

Just considering the possibilities.

Cheers, George

[drstrange169]

"... there was access to Winthrop Street through the Stores Room that was at the back of the stable yard."

I believe the Store room in Winthrop St was a separate building to Brown's Yard with no access from one to the other.

" There is opinion that Polly may have been expecting the stable door to be unlocked when she took clients there ..."

Part of PC Neil's job was to check business premises, yards and buildings were locked.

Never say never, particularly in the jtr case, but I think it unlikely these were viable options.

[GBinOz]

"... there was access to Winthrop Street through the Stores Room that was at the back of the stable yard."

I believe the Store room in Winthrop St was a separate building to Brown's Yard with no access from one to the other.

" There is opinion that Polly may have been expecting the stable door to be unlocked when she took clients there ..."

Part of PC Neil's job was to check business premises, yards and buildings were locked.

Never say never, particularly in the jtr case, but I think it unlikely these were viable options.

Hi Dusty,

The address for Brown's Stable Yard was 46 Winthrop Street, so I would think there was a good chance that there was access between the two. The stable site was sold at the end of 1888 and comprehensively demolished, resulting in an advertisement in The Times in January for sale of stables, coach houses etc. The business did not appear in the 1888 Post Office Directory, so it would appear that the business could have been defunct at the time of Polly's murder. So it's possible that there was little left on either site other than the gate on Buck's Row, making it un-necessary for Neil to check on the security of a no longer existing business premises. But I agree, there are always the conflicting uncertainties with anything to do with JtR.




Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

Cross was innocent because there is no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The problem for me with the suggestion is that I can’t see an issue with being heard running or walking away? He’d have been gone. I don’t think for a minute that the killer would have remained and there was no way that Paul could have sneaked up on Cross.

[chubbs]

Can someone help me with a question about 'lighting' in Buck's Row, please?

I know there was a gas lamp at the Brady Street end of Buck's Row and I've heard that there was another light somewhere at the other end. Does anyone know precisely where it was? Are there any other lighting details that I'm unaware of?

[GBinOz]

To John and Herlock,

This theory has nothing to do with Cross as a perpetrator. Quite the opposite.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Can someone help me with a question about 'lighting' in Buck's Row, please?

I know there was a gas lamp at the Brady Street end of Buck's Row and I've heard that there was another light somewhere at the other end. Does anyone know precisely where it was? Are there any other lighting details that I'm unaware of?

Hi Chubbs,

The question is not where the gas lamps were placed, but which ones were working on the night. In that regard we have only the sworn testimony of PC Neil, who stated that there was only one gas light working, and that it was at the end of the row some distance away. He was there, so who can argue against him?

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

To John and Herlock,

This theory has nothing to do with Cross as a perpetrator. Quite the opposite.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

Fair point.

[Geddy2112]

Can someone help me with a question about 'lighting' in Buck's Row, please?

I know there was a gas lamp at the Brady Street end of Buck's Row and I've heard that there was another light somewhere at the other end. Does anyone know precisely where it was? Are there any other lighting details that I'm unaware of?

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/scene-of-the-crimes/829584-location-of-lamps-etc

[Herlock Sholmes]

On reflection I do regret putting the word ‘almost’ in the title of this thread.

[drstrange169]

>> ... un-necessary for Neil to check on the security..<<

Sorry, but I'm going to be very contrary this morning.

If the place was abandoned it would have been even more important that Neil checked that it was locked. Certainly the locals like Purkiss and Greene would have known and most of all, the killer would have committed the crime inside the yard if it was empty and unlocked.


>> ... the sworn testimony of PC Neil, who stated that there was only one gas light working ...<<

Maybe I'm having a brain freeze, but I can't recall Neil ever claiming one light wasn't working. He passed one light at the end of Bucks Row which he mentioned, exactly where is disputed, either close to Essex Wharf or near the hat factory. The other light was way up near Brady Street and I don't recall him claiming that was not working.