Why Cross Was Almost Certainly Innocent

[Fiver]

I'm waiting for the House of Lechmere episode where Ed explains how, after he retired, Lechmere took his family on a summer holiday to Sarajevo in 1914.

I'm waiting for the day the Lechmerians substitute Lechmere for Netley in the Royal Conspiracy on the grounds he named a son Albert Edward.

[FrankO]

Me…outspoken? What makes you say that Frank?

Just saying you're a tad more outspoken than I am, Mike. So it would depend on how outspoken you see me.

Did I save myself there?

[Elamarna]

Before speculating about what route a possible JtR would or could have taken from Berner Street to Mitre Square, why would he go there at all? Wouldn't there have been other places, closer by, where to find prostitutes?

Like Whitechapel High Street, Commercial Street, Brick Lane, Leman Street? I have to add that I don't know whether there were places closer by, but I'm just wondering, because I can certainly imagine that there were.

A good question Frank, it's not even the best route if you were heading for say..... somewhere like Eldond street .

Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

As you probably know, I'm a little less outspoken than you, but for me it would certainly be an extra point against him as a suspect.

Me…outspoken? What makes you say that Frank?

[FrankO]

Oops, double posting again...

[FrankO]

That is their argument, but it's based on speculation and ignoring everyone who wasn't Charles Lechmere. We have no idea what Lechmere's route from his old address to his work was. There is no evidence that Lechemere ever used Old Montague Street to go to work. The idea that he would walk to work using a route he no longer walked at 1am on his only day off makes no sense. The shortest route from Goulston Street of 22 Doveton would not follow Old Montague Street or Lechmere's normal route from work. Killing Stride and Eddowes would have required Lechmere to stay up 23+ hours or get up 3+ hours on his only day off.

But why let the facts get in the way of a theory.

Before speculating about what route a possible JtR would or could have taken from Berner Street to Mitre Square, why would he go there at all? Wouldn't there have been other places, closer by, where to find prostitutes?

Like Whitechapel High Street, Commercial Street, Brick Lane, Leman Street? I have to add that I don't know whether there were places closer by, but I'm just wondering, because I can certainly imagine that there were.

[FrankO]

Sorry, double posting...

[FrankO]

If it had been reported that he’d been knocked up it would be a final nail in the coffin imo.

As you probably know, I'm a little less outspoken than you, but for me it would certainly be an extra point against him as a suspect.

[drstrange169]

" Thain’s times are approximations "

As was Llewellyn's, which is odd as the time a doctor first sees a body is the only medically relevant time.

[Kattrup]

>>The best we can say is that, at some unknown point in time after having woken up, he (Llewellyn) learned the time from a certain timepiece (could also have been the 4 o'clock chime)<<

It's a common, and understandable misconception that Llewellyn was quoting the time he was called.

He wasn't.

He was quoting the time he arrived in Buck's Row.

Hmm, I do not agree with this. I think it’s clear the doctor is specifying the time he was called, saying five to four or around four.
I note that he mentions the time, and then states I went with the constable etc.

Thain’s times are approximations anyway, his estimate of returning ten minutes after leaving Neil is just an estimate.

[A P Tomlinson]

I think your wrong Fiver. Lechmere wrote all the Ripper letters, murdered the C5 and was also The Thames Torso Killer and killed numerous other women in Victorian London.

I'm waiting for the House of Lechmere episode where Ed explains how, after he retired, Lechmere took his family on a summer holiday to Sarajevo in 1914.

[kjab3112]

All her other wounds are to her abdomen, there were no cuts to her clothing.
Therefore, for another cut to have been made, the killer must raise her clothing and cut her, while she is standing.
This is simply unrealistic.

Steve

Although we can question Llewelyn’s competence as a forensic physician, it’s clear that Spratling and Helson looked for further blood on Polly’s clothing and would have looked for defence wounds, both of which appear missing. A throat cut wouldn’t necessarily be fatal if it didn’t penetrate the platysma muscle (not the case with Polly) and Guy’s 1888 edition of Forensic Medicine even mentions two cases where the victim was able to walk a few yards in one case and 20 yards in another. The absence of any blood on either the chest or front of Polly’s clothing would rule out the cuts being made in any position other than supine and the absence of defensive wounds to the hands would imply she was incapacitated first (likely from pressure to the neck) and then throat cut once supine. Whoever the Brady Street victim was that the Colwill’s heard I don’t think it could have been Polly.

Paul

[drstrange169]

>>The best we can say is that, at some unknown point in time after having woken up, he (Llewellyn) learned the time from a certain timepiece (could also have been the 4 o'clock chime)<<

It's a common, and understandable misconception that Llewellyn was quoting the time he was called.

He wasn't.

He was quoting the time he arrived in Buck's Row. How do we know this? P.C.Thain makes it clear in his testimony that he arrived back in Buck's Row 10 mins after leaving Neil. if he left Neil around 3:45, his return must have been around 3:55.

"Witness ran for the doctor, and having called Dr. Llewellyn, accompanied him to the spot where deceased was lying. On his return with the doctor, Neil and two workmen were standing by the body. He did not know the workmen." Times

"About ten minutes after he had fetched the surgeon he saw two workmen standing with Neale." Daily Telegraph

[drstrange169]

>>That same logic can be applied to Schwartz's account in the Stride murder <<

Not really, Mrs Stride didn't scream continuously elsewhere, try to get into a house, then run through the streets being chased, which would be the Colville scenario.

[FISHY1118]

That's the point..

Nobody else came forward to give a different version because how could they if it didn't happen in the first place?!

It would be like coming forward to the police and saying...

"Officer, I have a different version of events to that Schwartz fellow.... It didn't happen the way he said... because nobody else saw or heard anything and I am not one for making up stories like that Packer fellow!"


RD

That's like saying nobody else heard a voice say "No" and the "Thud" of something hitting the fence at Annie Chapmans murder so it didn't happen.

Did Albert Cadosch make that up ?

As many have already stated, the attack on stride could have lasted as little as 30 to seconds . There need not have been anyone else in that direct area at that exact moment othe than Schwartz ,Stride, ,B.S and pipeman .