The cross/lechmere theory - a newbie's thoughts

[The Baron]

There is zero evidence against Lechmere. The quest to find him guilty as Jack the Ripper is tiresome, annoying and in bad taste. Lechmere found a body so what?

No John, that is a supposition on your behalf.


Lechmere was spotted near a freshly killed woman, we don't know if he was the finder or the killer.



The Baron

[Fiver]

Here, you put in a lot of time on something and the same crowd stumbles by without making any effort to understand the argument
and declares it more Lechmerite nonsense.

We understand the arguments. We have heard them dozens of time before. We reject the theory that Charles Lechmere was the Ripper because we have examined the evidence, which shows the case against Lechmere is a mix of irrelevancies, speculation, and outright falsehoods.

Charles Lechmere was found near a body. He lived in the area.

That's the whole case against him.

[The Baron]

Why is it so hard to squeeze a bit of truth out of some people.

Clearly innocent. Remove the fabrications and you have a better case against Gull. Cross is one of the worst suspects we have

""I am now ‘convinced’ that he has to be taken seriously as a suspect; as the ripper and maybe the Torso Killer"




The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

Paul:

""It was exactly a quarter to four when I passed up Buck's-row to my work as a carman for Covent-garden market. It was dark, and I was hurrying along, when I saw a man standing where the woman was"


Yes that is not feet away, maybe even closer



The Baron

You can’t help yourself can you?

From The Telegraph.

Robert Baul [Paul], 30, Forster-street, Whitechapel, carman, said as he was going to work at Cobbett's-court, Spitalfields, he saw in Buck's-row a man standing in the middle of the road


or from The Times

Robert Baul [sic – Paul], a carman of 30, Foster-street, Whitechapel, stated he went to work at Cobbett’s-court, Spitalfields. He left home about a quarter to 4 on the Friday morning, and as he was passing up Buck’s-row he saw a man standing in the middle of the road.

[Herlock Sholmes]

""I am now ‘convinced’ that he has to be taken seriously as a suspect; as the ripper and maybe the Torso Killer"




The Baron

Something I’ve already explained…

compared to….

“How could you give a certain TOD ?! She could have been dead for 30 Minutes or more

Don't tell me you swallowed the blood 'evidence' of Fisherman?!”


or this..


“Lechmerians want us to believe anything they say, they are the leaders when it comes to masterminds, one of many ridicolous things they want us to believe is that Paul was the most stupid and imbecile person in Whitechapel!

It must be Lechmere's magic, I saw a photo of him, I think his eyes are very deep and sharp, he has that look........oh”


or this..


“And I will keep the bloody knife on myself, I am the smartest guy ever been created, no one, and I mean no one ever will search me, no one will stop me, I can make my way out of hell when I want.

I will go to the inquest, and stand in front of the coroner and the whole jury, I will tell everone that Mizen was a liar and that I didn't tell him there was another Policeman in Buck's row, I will contradict him freely, openly, explicitly, and go to kill again in only 5 days, no one ever will be watching my ass after this, no one will suspect me, they all will know Mizen is the bad guy here, they all are just a bunch of imbecile detectives....

I will tell the jury that the other man thought the woman might be still breathing, freshly killed!, and that I didn't hear any footsteps whatsoever and didn't see anyone there!, but no one from those lunatic detectives will ever suspect me of killing her, I am so smart!

I have a family, a dozen of kids, but who cares, my lust to kill on my route to work is at most important to me.... I like to start my daywork by killing cutting and mutilating someone around”


or this..


“After Caz brilliant post above, I can declare from my position, that the Mizen Scam Era has come to an end!”


or this..


“Fisherman is selling the idea that if Mizen went to the body and found no policeman there, that will rise no alarm whatsoever and the police forces will not be all over the place looking for him! he can lie as he want to the Police and no one will be on his door!

And look how the Lechmerians contradict themselves! Fisherman says Cross gave another name to protect his family, to keep them away from the murder, but by lying to the police and risking to be the most wanted Police suspect in Whitechapel is no problem at all.

This whole theory is based ubon the ignorance of all other parties involved, one has to be an imbecile to believe such nonsense

No Fish, that will not work, try harder!”


or this


“Caz post has set an end to this fishy tunnel under logic and facts that you are trying to escape through”


or this..


“Cross stood in front of the jury freely, gave a false name, contardicted Mizen and denied saying anything about another policeman in Buck's row, he was so confident that he went killing again and on his way to work again and at the same time again in 5 days!!!

I read some fairy tales that were much better than this.

Sophistry: the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving”


or this..


“Lechmere wouldn't have lied to Mizen, then he is risking finding the police over his shoulder.

He could have run away, but the Lechmerians want us to believe he injected himself intentionally in the events after killing Nichols, to then again change their reasoning to show another Lechmere whose solo purpose is to get out of the situation, he didn't even let Paul help the woman up so that he can enjoy the chock effects on Paul's face, as they falsley always claim.

A very disturbed theory, with zero consistency.”


or this..


”Lechmerians have failed to bring any single evidence or shred of a clue to justify their claims, they even went to the extreme phantasy and presented Lechmere as the solo ripper-torso murderer of his time, aka Lechmerianismus!”


or this..


“And one important thing that Lechmerians always don't consider:

Rising the alarm for what exactly?!

If a man hardly recognised in the dark there is a woman laying on the ground, should he immediately and before even looking closely or examining her go mad shouting and knocking on the doors and screaming and pulling his hair: hey people come here all of you to me hey hey come here , there seems to be a woman laying here, come everyone all of you to me damn it...”


or this..


“If a lechmerian told me: look at Lechmere, all of his actions whithout any single exception were very normal, doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Then I would say he has a better argument than anything was ever produced by Fisherman and his company.”


or this..


“If he chose to run away no one ever will be talking now about him, and Paul could have very likely missed the body.

It was Lechmere's choice to stand and look and give the Attention to the woman laying on the ground to the first one he saw who could have been anyone even a constable, and he went with him looking for a policeman”


or this..


“Thats why this is a very weak theory, one has first to believe of Lechmere guilt then try to find excuses to keep the flame on:


-Maybe he didn't hear Paul coming

-Maybe he wanted to inject himself in the investigations

-Maybe Cross was not the name he was known as at work

-Maybe he was a psychopath

-Maybe he didn't panic

-Maybe he had a dominant mother

-Maybe he didn't care he had the murder's weapon on himself

-Maybe he convinced Paul to tell a white lie

-Maybe he lied to Mizen within an earshot and Paul didn't hear a thing

-Maybe he didn't care of being watched by the police after the inquest, in spite of him contradicting a policeman and went killing in 5 days

-Maybe he don't care he had a dozen of children and their mother to feed

-Maybe he was sure he wouldn't be search and has no blood on himself whatsoever

-Maybe the blood was ozzing as flowing!

-Maybe she was killed within minutes of Paul arriving

-Maybe she was already in Buck's row with a client before

Maybe he was the Torso Killer!!!!!

-Maybe he liked killing pregnant women! and playing with their fetus! (I wounder why he didn't killed his wife she was pregnant all the time!)”


or this..


“Endless excuses to fit Lechmere in.

I will add one 'Maybe' to the festival:

-Maybe because it is too damn difficult to admit you were wrong all the time”


or this


“But the Lechmerians remained in their subzero state of denial.”


I’d stop digging if I were you Baron.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No John, that is a supposition on your behalf.


Lechmere was spotted near a freshly killed woman, we don't know if he was the finder or the killer.



The Baron

Ok….he was the killer….not Kosminski.

[The Baron]

You can’t help yourself can you?

From The Telegraph.

Robert Baul [Paul], 30, Forster-street, Whitechapel, carman, said as he was going to work at Cobbett's-court, Spitalfields, he saw in Buck's-row a man standing in the middle of the road


or from The Times

Robert Baul [sic – Paul], a carman of 30, Foster-street, Whitechapel, stated he went to work at Cobbett’s-court, Spitalfields. He left home about a quarter to 4 on the Friday morning, and as he was passing up Buck’s-row he saw a man standing in the middle of the road.

You wont go away with it this time

You claimed

"We don’t have one single piece of evidence or even a hint of a piece of evidence that Cross was ever any closer than feet away from the body"


That claim has been shown to be false.


It is rich! coming from the one who is right and left accusing Lechmerians of fabrications and falsifications.



The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

You wont go away with it this time

You claimed

"We don’t have one single piece of evidence or even a hint of a piece of evidence that Cross was ever any closer than feet away from the body"


That claim has been shown to be false.


It is rich! coming from the one who is right and left accusing Lechmerians of fabrications and falsifications.



The Baron

Oh grow up Baron. The two inquest reports have Paul saying the Cross was standing in the middle of the road. It wasn’t a wide road so he couldn’t have been that far. I don’t know if your ‘spotted near..’ is an actual quote but if it is then it’s just general phrase. Cross couldn’t have been anything other than ‘near’ in a narrow street.

Please stop arguing.

[Mike J. G.]

Oh grow up Baron. The two inquest reports have Paul saying the Cross was standing in the middle of the road. It wasn’t a wide road so he couldn’t have been that far. I don’t know if your ‘spotted near..’ is an actual quote but if it is then it’s just general phrase. Cross couldn’t have been anything other than ‘near’ in a narrow street.

Please stop arguing.

I believe that Buck's Row was 25 feet wide, so in the middle must roughly be around ten feet or so, give or take.

It's certainly not the case that Lechmere was crouching over the body. But standing in the middle of the road isn't as tasty as crouching over a freshly killed woman.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Does any other suspect have such a cult following? Maybrick tends to involve debate over the diary itself but I’m talking about a suspect on his own. One where the supporters will go to any length…and I do mean any length. I get the impression that if someone came up with proof that Cross was in Edinburgh on the night of the Kelly murder then Cross supporters would claim “well, that proves he was the killer.”

[Herlock Sholmes]

I believe that Buck's Row was 25 feet wide, so in the middle must roughly be around ten feet or so, give or take.

It's certainly not the case that Lechmere was crouching over the body. But standing in the middle of the road isn't as tasty as crouching over a freshly killed woman.

Exactly Mike. Baron had the word ‘near’ in his quote (if it was a quote) but near isn’t a distance. I realise that English isn’t The Baron’s first language so maybe this explains his confusion. ‘Near’ when discussing two towns can be a couple of miles. In a street it’s a few feet. In Russia or Australia it can be 200 miles. There’s a lot of evidence missing so I don’t see the need to twist what’s left.

[The Baron]

but near isn’t a distance. I realise that English isn’t The Baron’s first language so maybe this explains his confusion

Cambridge Dictionary:

"not far away in distance"



Collins Dictionary:

"If something is near a place, thing, or person, it is a short distance from them"



Longman Dictionary:

"near only a short distance from something or someone"


Your claim that "near" is not a distance has been shown to be false.


I bet today is not your day, two times in a row!!

Some are ready to change the meaning of their own language if they needed to.



The Baron

[John Wheat]

No John, that is a supposition on your behalf.


Lechmere was spotted near a freshly killed woman, we don't know if he was the finder or the killer.



The Baron

No it isn't. Lechmere found a body that's it.

[Geddy2112]

Lechmere was spotted near a freshly killed woman, we don't know if he was the finder or the killer.

By whom? Just asking because Paul said he saw him in the middle of the road. He never mentioned a 'near a freshly killed woman.'

You see it's this misrepresentation of the facts that has lead to all this bollocks in the first place...

[The Baron]

No it isn't. Lechmere found a body that's it.

How do you know? Were you with him?

Lechmere was spotted near a freshly killed woman, we don't know if he was the finder or if he was the killer.

I say we go 50% 50%, all good John?



The Baron