The cross/lechmere theory - a newbie's thoughts

[Geddy2112]

If one is going to periodically update a list of points, part of that updating process should include not repeating points that were debunked after the previous update.

The problem is, with the examples I quoted above is in the beginning he was close to the mark - the 'truth' if you like. Now it's a complete and utter load of horse poop. Why? It seems with every passing post more fake bias is added. I know why it's desperation to be accepted. We know by reading any newspaper or watching the news the truth is usually boring and mundane. It has to be spiced up to make it more attractive. I think this applies to the Cross case.

Charles was exactly like what Edward and Christer want him to be a normal, boring, ordinary run of the mill guy. However they need him to be a multiple murderer as well so they have to add to the narrative to do so, often with twisting of evidence and manipulation of the English language, they have to take the mundane and make it extraordinary. In other words they have produce a fictional story from a rather run of the mill non-fictional one.

[Lewis C]

If one is going to periodically update a list of points, part of that updating process should include not repeating points that were debunked after the previous update.

[Geddy2112]

1- Lechmere was seen alone in the dark near a freshly killed woman

This is Christer's latest gambit. Let me explain something.

Having walked a hundred yards or so, and with the light from the gas lamp as a haze in the distance, he suddenly discerned a man standing still in the middle of the street.

Lechmere was seen alone in the dark near a freshly killed woman

The top quote is from Christer back in 2012 ish and I would say that is probably the last time he told the truth about the events last night or close to it. As you can see his quote and your quote are completely different. His is closer to the evidence we have, yours is the Chinese whisper version of events how it has transcended over the years. It's gone from fairly accurate to complete and utter BS, that is the problem with Lechmere being the killer. If it starts out as being untrue and you keep adding more untrue all you are left with is a larger amount of 'untrue.'

[Fiver]

Lechmere/Cross theory V2.0 Servicepack 2.3

Updated basic points:


1- Lechmere was seen alone in the dark near a freshly killed woman

2- The victim was last seen alive about half past two, she was alone, there was no sighting of her in company with another man

3- Lechmere didn't notify Mizen that the victim looked as if she had been outraged

4- Lechmere gave just the name Cross at the inquest

5- Lechmere was involved in an accident that killed a boy

6- In one account Lechmere refused to prop the woman up

7- Three constables didn't notice anything unusual and nothing attracted their attention that night before they encountered Lechmer, Paul and a dead body

8- Lechmere might have got a chance to get rid of a knife

9- The true murderer of Nichols hadn't been convicted

10- Neither Lechmere nor Paul noticed a pool of blood under the woman's head or blood oozing from a throat cut, there is a chance that one of them might have been lying

11- According to detective inspector Dew, Lechmere went to the woman, shaked her, and noticed there was something strange about the position of the woman's head (it was almost severed from the body) before meeting with Paul, he failed to notice any blood or cut, and failed to mention this to Mizen or to the Jury

12- Paul didn't see or hear Lechmere walking in front of him before Lechmere appeared standing near the body of Nichols

13- Lechmere was local, certainly knew the different routes and the streets in Whitechapel, it is even possible that he had a general idea of the constables beats

14- Paul said "there are such terrible gangs about. There have been many knocked down and robbed at that spot" He was afraid and tried to avoid Lechmere

15- in one report we have Lechmere leaving home at 3:20 a.m. and in another he left at about half-past three, if he left between 3:20 and 3:30 a.m. there could have been a gap in time unaccounted for.

16- In the inquest it was reported that while Lechmere and Paul were by the body, "just then they heard a policeman coming" but they didn't wait there and chose to leave the scene

17- If Lechmere had noticed that Constable Neil was coming down Buck's Row, then that gives weight to the Mizen Scam theory.



The Baron

1. True.
2. Irrelevant. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
3. Neither did Paul. Your double standard is noted.
4. Irrelevant. It was not an attempt to conceal his identity.
5. Irrelevant. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
6. A point in Lechmere's favor. Propping the body up would give an innocent excuse for having blood on his hands or clothes.
7. Incorrect. PC Thain saw a couple men on Brady Street shortly before he was alerted by PC Neil. Robert Paul, PC John Neil, Walter Purkiss, Patrick Mulshaw, James Green, Sergeant Henry Kirby, Mr Perkins, the watchman at Schnieder's factory, the watchman at the wool depot, and the watchman at Essex Wharf were all nearby and have no known alibi.
8. Speculation. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
9. Irrelevant. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
10. Neither did Paul. Your double standard is noted.
11. Dew was writing from memory 50 years after events that he did not directly witness.
12. False. Paul never said at what distance he heard or saw Lechmere.
13. The same is true of PC Mizen, PC Neil, PC Thain, Robert Paul, Walter Purkiss, Patrick Mulshaw, James Green, Sergeant Henry Kirby, Mr Perkins, the watchman at Schnieder's factory, the watchman at the wool depot, and the watchman at Essex Wharf. Your double standard is noted.
14. Irrelevant. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
15. Speculation. Tells us nothing about who murdered Nichols.
16. Most newspaper accounts by Cross, Paul, Neil, Thain, and Mizen contradict this.
17. Impossible. If Lechmere noticed PC Neil coming down Bucks Row, then Lechmere and Paul would have encountered Neil, not Mizen.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Lechmere/Cross theory V2.0 Servicepack 2.3

Updated basic points:


1- Lechmere was seen alone in the dark near a freshly killed woman

According to you and your pal Dr. Phillips John Richardson was alone in a yard with a victim. Therefore he’s a likelier killer than Cross.

2- The victim was last seen alive about half past two, she was alone, there was no sighting of her in company with another man

Which is completely irrelevant. She saw her killer. And even if someone else had seen her they might have been reluctant to come forward knowing what happened to her.

3- Lechmere didn't notify Mizen that the victim looked as if she had been outraged

Because he had no way of knowing if she had or hadn’t. So it wasn’t relevant.

4- Lechmere gave just the name Cross at the inquest

How do you know that? And even if he had why didn’t they ask? There were police there they could have insisted - another red herring - joke after joke.

5- Lechmere was involved in an accident that killed a boy

Was it him? I thought that you Cross defenders said that he always used the name Lechmere?

6- In one account Lechmere refused to prop the woman up

And in one he didn’t. So….irrelevant.

And even if we could prove that he refused to prop her up that would have been entirely normal behaviour. Millions of people are squeamish when it comes to bodies.

7- Three constables didn't notice anything unusual and nothing attracted their attention that night before they encountered Lechmer, Paul and a dead body

Irrelevant. Same applies to all of the murders - you’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel to add points to support a suspect who until a few weeks ago you considered a joke. But now, just because you see an opportunity to annoy people you suddenly start a ‘vote Cross’ campaign.

8- Lechmere might have got a chance to get rid of a knife

Nope. An invention.

9- The true murderer of Nichols hadn't been convicted

Why don’t you add that Cross had legs. This is desperate stuff even for you.

10- Neither Lechmere nor Paul noticed a pool of blood under the woman's head or blood oozing from a throat cut, there is a chance that one of them might have been lying

Or……….it was very dark.

11- According to detective inspector Dew, Lechmere went to the woman, shaked her, and noticed there was something strange about the position of the woman's head (it was almost severed from the body) before meeting with Paul, he failed to notice any blood or cut, and failed to mention this to Mizen or to the Jury

The same Inspector Dew who said that Emma Smith was found unconscious in the street. Ok.

12- Paul didn't see or hear Lechmere walking in front of him before Lechmere appeared standing near the body of Nichols

How can you know that? He was never asked.

13- Lechmere was local, certainly knew the different routes and the streets in Whitechapel, it is even possible that he had a general idea of the constables beats

As did others.

14- Paul said "there are such terrible gangs about. There have been many knocked down and robbed at that spot" He was afraid and tried to avoid Lechmere

Which means that he was afraid of gangs….not Cross. Are these real comments Baron?

15- in one report we have Lechmere leaving home at 3:20 a.m. and in another he left at about half-past three, if he left between 3:20 and 3:30 a.m. there could have been a gap in time unaccounted for.

Nice try. In the majority he said ‘about 3.30.’ Even Fish accepts this…..he just ‘forgot’ it when writing his book and making the documentary,

16- In the inquest it was reported that while Lechmere and Paul were by the body, "just then they heard a policeman coming" but they didn't wait there and chose to leave the scene

Rubbish.

17- If Lechmere had noticed that Constable Neil was coming down Buck's Row, then that gives weight to the Mizen Scam theory.

Rubbish

The Baron

Third time lucky…..rubbish.


Crap suspect. And you are only promoting him because you like to annoy people.

Every single point about Cross has been rebutted. I call out to all Cross supporters that it’s time to do the honourable thing. Show the world that you still have some integrity left and admit that Cross clearly wasn’t the ripper and that you got carried away on this ludicrous bandwagon. Let it go….you will feel better. Move on. You’ve been conned. Chalk it down as a life lesson and move on. How much time and effort have we wasted on this dishonest joke.

[The Baron]

Lechmere/Cross theory V2.0 Servicepack 2.3

Updated basic points:


1- Lechmere was seen alone in the dark near a freshly killed woman

2- The victim was last seen alive about half past two, she was alone, there was no sighting of her in company with another man

3- Lechmere didn't notify Mizen that the victim looked as if she had been outraged

4- Lechmere gave just the name Cross at the inquest

5- Lechmere was involved in an accident that killed a boy

6- In one account Lechmere refused to prop the woman up

7- Three constables didn't notice anything unusual and nothing attracted their attention that night before they encountered Lechmer, Paul and a dead body

8- Lechmere might have got a chance to get rid of a knife

9- The true murderer of Nichols hadn't been convicted

10- Neither Lechmere nor Paul noticed a pool of blood under the woman's head or blood oozing from a throat cut, there is a chance that one of them might have been lying

11- According to detective inspector Dew, Lechmere went to the woman, shaked her, and noticed there was something strange about the position of the woman's head (it was almost severed from the body) before meeting with Paul, he failed to notice any blood or cut, and failed to mention this to Mizen or to the Jury

12- Paul didn't see or hear Lechmere walking in front of him before Lechmere appeared standing near the body of Nichols

13- Lechmere was local, certainly knew the different routes and the streets in Whitechapel, it is even possible that he had a general idea of the constables beats

14- Paul said "there are such terrible gangs about. There have been many knocked down and robbed at that spot" He was afraid and tried to avoid Lechmere

15- in one report we have Lechmere leaving home at 3:20 a.m. and in another he left at about half-past three, if he left between 3:20 and 3:30 a.m. there could have been a gap in time unaccounted for.

16- In the inquest it was reported that while Lechmere and Paul were by the body, "just then they heard a policeman coming" but they didn't wait there and chose to leave the scene

17- If Lechmere had noticed that Constable Neil was coming down Buck's Row, then that gives weight to the Mizen Scam theory.



The Baron

[John Wheat]

And John, why wasn't you annoyed when a druittist was defending Bury? And now when you see a Kosminiskis defending Lechmere you get troubled??

Double standards? When it suits you?!



The Baron

Herlock's not a Druittist so you're wrong for a start. Also why would I be annoyed when someone defends the strongest suspect there is?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I am not you John, you believe in Bury's guilt, full stop.


The Baron

An allergy to truth might be the issue. John has stated numerous times on here that he feels that Bury is the strongest suspect. Ask him if he’d bet his house on it and he’d say no. The problem is that you see everything in terms of black and white, of good guys v bad guys. Or in your case it’s Kosminski vs the rest.

You have no sense of balance. Everything that you do is based on personal grudges.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I am not you John, you believe in Bury's guilt, full stop.

I want to explore those who I consider persons of interest further.

And John, don't believe and repeat everything you read, be independent.



The Baron

Not true.

How could you give a certain TOD ?! She could have been dead for 30 Minutes or more

Don't tell me you swallowed the blood 'evidence' of Fisherman?!”


or this..


“Lechmerians want us to believe anything they say, they are the leaders when it comes to masterminds, one of many ridicolous things they want us to believe is that Paul was the most stupid and imbecile person in Whitechapel!

It must be Lechmere's magic, I saw a photo of him, I think his eyes are very deep and sharp, he has that look........oh”


or this..


“And I will keep the bloody knife on myself, I am the smartest guy ever been created, no one, and I mean no one ever will search me, no one will stop me, I can make my way out of hell when I want.

I will go to the inquest, and stand in front of the coroner and the whole jury, I will tell everone that Mizen was a liar and that I didn't tell him there was another Policeman in Buck's row, I will contradict him freely, openly, explicitly, and go to kill again in only 5 days, no one ever will be watching my ass after this, no one will suspect me, they all will know Mizen is the bad guy here, they all are just a bunch of imbecile detectives....

I will tell the jury that the other man thought the woman might be still breathing, freshly killed!, and that I didn't hear any footsteps whatsoever and didn't see anyone there!, but no one from those lunatic detectives will ever suspect me of killing her, I am so smart!

I have a family, a dozen of kids, but who cares, my lust to kill on my route to work is at most important to me.... I like to start my daywork by killing cutting and mutilating someone around”


or this..


“After Caz brilliant post above, I can declare from my position, that the Mizen Scam Era has come to an end!”


or this..


“Fisherman is selling the idea that if Mizen went to the body and found no policeman there, that will rise no alarm whatsoever and the police forces will not be all over the place looking for him! he can lie as he want to the Police and no one will be on his door!

And look how the Lechmerians contradict themselves! Fisherman says Cross gave another name to protect his family, to keep them away from the murder, but by lying to the police and risking to be the most wanted Police suspect in Whitechapel is no problem at all.

This whole theory is based ubon the ignorance of all other parties involved, one has to be an imbecile to believe such nonsense

No Fish, that will not work, try harder!”


or this


“Caz post has set an end to this fishy tunnel under logic and facts that you are trying to escape through”


or this..


“Cross stood in front of the jury freely, gave a false name, contardicted Mizen and denied saying anything about another policeman in Buck's row, he was so confident that he went killing again and on his way to work again and at the same time again in 5 days!!!

I read some fairy tales that were much better than this.

Sophistry: the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving”


or this..


“Lechmere wouldn't have lied to Mizen, then he is risking finding the police over his shoulder.

He could have run away, but the Lechmerians want us to believe he injected himself intentionally in the events after killing Nichols, to then again change their reasoning to show another Lechmere whose solo purpose is to get out of the situation, he didn't even let Paul help the woman up so that he can enjoy the chock effects on Paul's face, as they falsley always claim.

A very disturbed theory, with zero consistency.”


or this..


”Lechmerians have failed to bring any single evidence or shred of a clue to justify their claims, they even went to the extreme phantasy and presented Lechmere as the solo ripper-torso murderer of his time, aka Lechmerianismus!”


or this..


“And one important thing that Lechmerians always don't consider:

Rising the alarm for what exactly?!

If a man hardly recognised in the dark there is a woman laying on the ground, should he immediately and before even looking closely or examining her go mad shouting and knocking on the doors and screaming and pulling his hair: hey people come here all of you to me hey hey come here , there seems to be a woman laying here, come everyone all of you to me damn it...”


or this..


“If a lechmerian told me: look at Lechmere, all of his actions whithout any single exception were very normal, doesn't that seem suspicious to you? Then I would say he has a better argument than anything was ever produced by Fisherman and his company.”


or this..


“If he chose to run away no one ever will be talking now about him, and Paul could have very likely missed the body.

It was Lechmere's choice to stand and look and give the Attention to the woman laying on the ground to the first one he saw who could have been anyone even a constable, and he went with him looking for a policeman”


or this..


“Thats why this is a very weak theory, one has first to believe of Lechmere guilt then try to find excuses to keep the flame on:


-Maybe he didn't hear Paul coming

-Maybe he wanted to inject himself in the investigations

-Maybe Cross was not the name he was known as at work

-Maybe he was a psychopath

-Maybe he didn't panic

-Maybe he had a dominant mother

-Maybe he didn't care he had the murder's weapon on himself

-Maybe he convinced Paul to tell a white lie

-Maybe he lied to Mizen within an earshot and Paul didn't hear a thing

-Maybe he didn't care of being watched by the police after the inquest, in spite of him contradicting a policeman and went killing in 5 days

-Maybe he don't care he had a dozen of children and their mother to feed

-Maybe he was sure he wouldn't be search and has no blood on himself whatsoever

-Maybe the blood was ozzing as flowing!

-Maybe she was killed within minutes of Paul arriving

-Maybe she was already in Buck's row with a client before

Maybe he was the Torso Killer!!!!!

-Maybe he liked killing pregnant women! and playing with their fetus! (I wounder why he didn't killed his wife she was pregnant all the time!)”


or this..


“Endless excuses to fit Lechmere in.

I will add one 'Maybe' to the festival:

-Maybe because it is too damn difficult to admit you were wrong all the time”


or this


“But the Lechmerians remained in their subzero state of denial.”


….


You are arguing purely for the sake of it just because you wish to annoy and not because you wish to explore a person of interest. You have added no content to this thread. All of this occurred because of you desperate, failed attempt to dismiss Bury as a suspect on the issue of beards.

[Herlock Sholmes]

And John, why wasn't you annoyed when a druittist was defending Bury? And now when you see a Kosminiskis defending Lechmere you get troubled??

Double standards? When it suits you?!



The Baron

You can’t help yourself can you? If I were a ‘Druittist’ it would mean that I believe that Druitt was the ripper. I don’t. So you aren’t telling the truth. Again.

[The Baron]

If I believed all I read I would believe Lechmere the Ripper. But I know the case against Lechmere is all bullshit, lies and semantics.

And John, why wasn't you annoyed when a druittist was defending Bury? And now when you see a Kosminiskis defending Lechmere you get troubled??

Double standards? When it suits you?!



The Baron

[John Wheat]

I am not you John, you believe in Bury's guilt, full stop.

I want to explore those who I consider persons of interest further.

And John, don't believe and repeat everything you read, be independent.



The Baron

If I believed all I read I would believe Lechmere the Ripper. But I know the case against Lechmere is all bullshit, lies and semantics.

[John Wheat]

I am not you John, you believe in Bury's guilt, full stop.

I want to explore those who I consider persons of interest further.

And John, don't believe and repeat everything you read, be independent.



The Baron

I am independent. The circumstantial evidence suggests Bury is the strongest suspect at the very least.

[The Baron]

Ridiculous post. Lechmere found a body that's it. I think you are doing this just to annoy other posters as you think Kosminski the Ripper. Or now are you saying Lechmere was the Ripper?

I am not you John, you believe in Bury's guilt, full stop.

I want to explore those who I consider persons of interest further.

And John, don't believe and repeat everything you read, be independent.



The Baron

[John Wheat]

Well John, if Lechmerians have anything that proves Lechmere guilty, they wouldn't then bother to give you a 50% piece of the cake.


I say you accept their offer!



The Baron

Ridiculous post. Lechmere found a body that's it. I think you are doing this just to annoy other posters as you think Kosminski the Ripper. Or now are you saying Lechmere was the Ripper?