Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cross Theory II

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lechmere
    replied
    I Will check my pictures when I get a chance - this is an interesting detail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Looking at one of the photos there appears to be one at the back.
    Which makes sense, as the cargo is under supervision.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lechmere
    replied
    But only one seat?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Guy
    replied
    .. and this one has two men
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Lechmere View Post
    I have seen pictures of Pickfords carts of the period (at the Pickfords head office) with nearly always just one driver.
    This Pickfords cart has two men.
    Apologies, have posted before.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Lechmere
    replied
    No the plays aren't online. I had to go to the Hackney Local History Archive.
    I had heard that 300 figure before - but the stables area was small - I would have thought big enough for 50 horses maximum. I shall have to seek out that book.
    I have seen pictures of Pickfords carts of the period (at the Pickfords head office) with nearly always just one driver.
    However if he had a boy with him (one of his sons became a carman and was listed at least once as a trainee of some sort - I seem to recall - I haven't got time to search out that record now) if they had to wait then no doubt the boy would act as the cart minder, allowing the senior to go for breakfast, or whatever.
    Last edited by Lechmere; 12-11-2013, 02:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ginger
    replied
    Aha - Thanks! That makes sense.

    The plans of the Broad Street depot of which you spoke - are those available online anywhere? I've a longstanding fascination with the lives of horses in Victorian cities.

    "The Horse World of London" (W.J. Gordon, Religious Tract Society, London, 1893) lists Pickford's Broad Street operation as housing some 300 horses, all property of the "North Western" (presumably the London and North Western Railway Company, as the mention occurs in the context of an enumeration of horses owned by railways), and under lease to Pickford's, who operated the carting part of the business under contract. Presumably they were mainly engaged in hauling goods to and from the railway depot, probably including fish and produce arriving overnight for the morning markets.

    I can't find any mention of Pickford's policies, but the general practice among carriers seems to have been to send a 'boy' with each carter to help load and unload, and assist in general. The presence of the boy would have presented a difficulty to Cross in trying to leave the market, murder Chapman, and return un-noticed, although of course that's not insurmountable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lechmere
    replied
    Lechmere claimed that he thought Polly Nichols' body was a tarpaulin when he first saw it.
    Numerous subsequent Ripperological writers added to Lechmere's testimony by saying that he was about to scavenge the supposed tarpaulin. This effectively exonerated Lechmere in the eyes of their readers, as it carried the implicit understanding that Lechmere had no idea that Nichols had been killed and accordingly he could not have been responsible for her death.
    In fact there is no evidence that Lechmere said that he intended to scavenge the supposed tarpaulin.
    On several occasions I have made a nuisance of myself in objecting to the auto suggestion that Lechmere was in the process of scavenging a tarpaulin when he discovered Nichol's body.
    That is why I referred to the location of the tarpaulin store in that manner.
    It was a joke.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ginger
    replied
    Originally posted by Lechmere View Post
    I have examined the plans of Broad Street Station. The stable area was not large and was adjacent to an office, a straw store, mess room, toilet block – and tarpaulin stores (strangely enough).

    Why would you consider tarpaulin stores odd? Pickford's was a carting company, and would presumably be called upon to transport all shapes and sizes of things in all sorts of weather. I'd expect them to have a large variety of tarpaulins on hand to protect their customer's goods in transit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lechmere
    replied
    Whoever the killer was would plausibly not have been covered in blood – as most of the victims seem to have been strangled first which, even if not to the complete extinction of life, would have reduced the heart's strength and ability to vigorously pump blood.
    Furthermore there were many fountains and water sources in the area so the killer would be able to wash his hands at least, if necessary.
    If the culprit fled through the streets covered in blood then I rather suspect he would have been caught before the end of the sequence.

    Looking at this case, prostitutes were killed late at night in locations where it seems that they went willingly with their killer. This location was suitably discrete for a murder to be committed. Even though the locations were all fairly open and fraught with risk for the culprit, they were the best options available to him. Where else could he have killed?
    In the daytime it would be impossible. Night provided the desperate victims and relative cover.

    The fact that the victims were concentrated in a relatively small area and found in similar circumstances suggests a local culprit or at least someone with strong local connections.

    Did the killer have a reason to be on those streets at those times, or did he purposely go out to commit the crimes and then go back to wherever he came from and go about his life?
    Serial killers tend to kill when they have the opportunity to kill.
    If the culprit was a working man with a family – and plenty of serial killers are – then in late Victorian London, when would he have the opportunity to kill?
    When would he be able to go out in the dead of the night and find his victims and the return, without raising suspicion at home?
    I would suggest that unless he had a ready excuse to go out at that time – for example to go to work - then his vicious and violent instincts would have remained as unfulfilled fantasies.

    Plenty of serial killers have killed while at work.
    The idea that no one would ever kill while on their way to work is an odd one to propose – why not?

    Lechmere had worked at Pickfords for twenty years. He stated that his start time was 4 am.
    I have examined the plans of Broad Street Station. The stable area was not large and was adjacent to an office, a straw store, mess room, toilet block – and tarpaulin stores (strangely enough).
    I doubt that all Pickfords staff started at 4.00 am. I rather suspect that at 4.00 am there would not be too many people about and Lechmere would have been able if necessary to clean himself up and even hide things in a suitable location.
    Pickford’s Broad Street depot was furthest from the Nichols murder scene. For the others it was not much more than five minutes away. Very convenient.
    I exclude Stride from this as that was not on a work day.

    So to remain a plausible suspect, where could the killer have gone after each killing?

    Could he have taken refuge in a common lodging house?
    The police certainty thought this was a likely possibility as they devoted a lot of their time ‘checking out’ these establishments after each crime, although it seems that as the series progressed, this opinion lessened as it would be next to impossible for a blood splattered killer – with body-part trophies – to enter such an establishment unnoticed.

    Perhaps the killer stayed out all night each time he killed, hiding away in a stairwell perhaps, until the streets became more crowded and anonymous?
    This again raises difficulties if he was blood splattered and carrying trophies. The likelihood that he could have remained on the streets and undetected after each crime seems unlikely once the hue and cry and public hysteria were at their peak.

    Could he have gone back to a hotel? Obvious problems.
    What about barrister’s chambers? These were not available for slumbering or hiding in after hours.
    Could he have gone back home – unlikely if he had a family – but possible of he was single and had his own place, perhaps a one bedroom flat with a separate entrance, near the mean centre of murders.

    I would like to see any named suspect who has a more secure post murder destination to Lechmere’s.

    Of all the Whitechapel murders, the times of death of Kelly and Chapman are most uncertain (I’m excluding the Pinchin Street torso from this for obvious reasons). They could have been committed at roughly the same time as the others – while Lechmere was on his way to work.
    I know Fisherman follows Dr. George Bagster Phillips in favouring on early time for Chapman’s murder.

    The nature of Lechmere’s job meant that he would often have to wait for a long time for his cart to be unloaded. Because of this people were employed to act as cart minders (eg coincidentally Elizabeth Long the Chapman witness). Lechmere could have slipped away for a while even during his hours of employment and may have taken this extra step for the Chapman murder which may have had an additional layer of motivation to it.
    Last edited by Lechmere; 12-10-2013, 06:21 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick S
    replied
    Hi, Ben. If I recall correctly the theory is that Cross would have had his cart at the Market near Hanbury Street -loading or unloading - while he did the deal with Chapman. I'd have to dig for it again. Its interesting. But it seems a stretch.

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben
    replied
    Hi Patrick,

    I agree with your points, and would add that not a single known serial killer can be shown to have claimed victims on their way to work, and for good reason I would have thought. Note also that Chapman's likely time of death at 5:30am means that Cross, due at work hours earlier, is not plausibly in the frame for that murder.

    All the best,
    Ben

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick S
    replied
    I don't. Poor choice of words. I mean only on the days that murders were committed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott Nelson
    replied
    You can't assume that Cross was intent on committing murder every morning on his way to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick S
    replied
    I've always found Cross/Lechmere interesting. Ultimately, I'm troubled by one aspect of his candidacy: He was on his way to work.

    I assume that his employment at Pickfords was verified by police and/or press. Indeed, his start time (and his route to get there) is one of the primary facts used to view him with suspicion. Thus, let's conceded that it's extremely likely that he was employed, at Pickfords, and his start time was 4am.

    I'm troubled by the fact that this man was on his way to work or was actually working (if you follow the theory to Hanbury Street his cart was being loaded/unloaded at the market while he was engaged with Chapman) and was apparently unconcerned about blood splatter on his clothing. Apparently Tabram was on Cross/Lechmere's route, as well. Thus, we attribute her murder to Jack the Ripper (Cross/Lechmere) as it fits the geography and time-frame. Tabram's throat was cut and she was stabbed dozens of times. I think it's reasonable to assume that the killer would have been covered in blood (Note: I've heard it suggested by some that the fact that JtR was covered in blood with Trabram caused him to alter his method).

    Most agree that JtR planned his attacks. Therefore, if Cross/Lechmere was JtR then he left work each day intent on committing literally bloody murder, and then going straight to work. So what's the theory? That he had a change of clothes? That he never got blood on him? That he had a bolt hole along the route to wash and change?

    I'm not condemning the theory. Its just an aspect of his inclusion as a suspect that I've found problematic.
    Last edited by Patrick S; 12-10-2013, 12:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X