Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why did Lechmere get involved with Paul ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    >>Can you point me to your demonstrations please. <<


    My article is in a back issue of Ripperologist from a few years ago. I can't remember the issue number, but it has a picture of McCarthy's grave on the cover.
    Since then Steve Blomer has produced an ebook that has more than anybody could ever want to know about Buck's Row.

    Steve's book can be found here,
    Please EMAIL when you order at Insidebucksrow@elamarna.co.uk
    https://paypal.me/bucksrow?locale.x=en_GB

    He gives regular free updates as new info comes to light. No spoilers, but the next update is going to be a beauty!



    >>Are you aware that just before they crossed Brady Street they would have been walking past the Albion Brewery. I have read that it was brightl lit all night. Surely they would have seen each other then?<<

    Christer claims it was brightly lit, I see no evidence to support that, as the lights were directed into the brewery not away from it, but it's irrelevant anyway, as the pair could be close and still not see the other.

    dustymiller
    aka drstrange

    Comment


    • #32
      Hah, I see Christer's appeared, you might want check his book out too,. "Cutting Point". It's NOWHERE NEAR as detailed as Steve's book, but at least you'll get an opposing view point and it's an easy, well written read.
      dustymiller
      aka drstrange

      Comment


      • #33
        As you can see from this Goad map, the section along Bath Street and Foster was all heavily built up, no space for need for lights. Brewery lights were only needed for the open spaces so employees could see to work at night.

        One newspaper, I can't recall which off hand, visited the area sometime later and commented on the brewery lights, but that was pertaining to Brady Street not Bath.
        dustymiller
        aka drstrange

        Comment


        • #34
          Hah! good idea if I included the map!!!!


          Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2021-07-07 at 8.35.50 pm.png
Views:	97
Size:	36.4 KB
ID:	761782




          Last edited by drstrange169; 07-07-2021, 10:44 AM.
          dustymiller
          aka drstrange

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
            >>Can you point me to your demonstrations please. <<


            My article is in a back issue of Ripperologist from a few years ago. I can't remember the issue number, but it has a picture of McCarthy's grave on the cover.
            Since then Steve Blomer has produced an ebook that has more than anybody could ever want to know about Buck's Row.

            Steve's book can be found here,
            Please EMAIL when you order at Insidebucksrow@elamarna.co.uk
            https://paypal.me/bucksrow?locale.x=en_GB

            He gives regular free updates as new info comes to light. No spoilers, but the next update is going to be a beauty!



            >>Are you aware that just before they crossed Brady Street they would have been walking past the Albion Brewery. I have read that it was brightl lit all night. Surely they would have seen each other then?<<

            Christer claims it was brightly lit, I see no evidence to support that, as the lights were directed into the brewery not away from it, but it's irrelevant anyway, as the pair could be close and still not see the other.
            There are reports from the time saying that the brewery was brigthly lit. If you put your heart to it, I bet you can dīfind them. Congratulations on Steves book, though!

            Comment


            • #36
              See my posts above. I don't haver a problem with the brewery being brightly lit, just where it was lit up.
              dustymiller
              aka drstrange

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                Hah, I see Christer's appeared, you might want check his book out too,. "Cutting Point". It's NOWHERE NEAR as detailed as Steve's book, but at least you'll get an opposing view point and it's an easy, well written read.
                I for one never believed that a thick book is always going to be better thatrn a less thick one. Strictly speaking, "thick" was never a judgement I considered flattering. I will quote myself from Cutting Point:
                "my aim is to be as short and succinct as possible"

                You see, Dusty, I never wanted to write a thick book. I wanted to write a book that was as short as possible, while still including all the important aspects of my theory.

                As an aside, I find that books that aim to establish something that can actually not be established since it has no true ground to stand on will more often than not pile on as much material as possible in an effort to veil their shortcomimgs in fog. That, of course is a general assessment only, and it does not relate to Steves book. It could never do so for the simple reason that I have not read it. You are welcome, though, to pick any one detail where Steve published information that I omitted to mention - and poiunt put how his choice makes the book a better source than mine. Perhaps it instead simply makes a different choice than mine, by naming details that he thinks point to innocence on Lechmereīs behalf whereas I donīt agree? You see, if I write that Lechmere gave a name he otherwise never used with the authorities becasue he wanted to conceal his true identity, others out here can write that he perhaps did so because:

                -He wanted to honour his ded stepfather
                -He actually called himself Cross at Pickfords
                -He had been given the go ahead by the inquest, who wanted to protect him
                -He wished not to sully the family name of Lechmere
                -He liked the sound of Cross better than that of Lechmere
                -He didnīt want to look as if he tried to sound posh
                -He had forgotten what his real name was
                -He had been adviced by a friend to try and stay out of the whole affair
                ...and so on and so on. This is the character of providing innocent alternative explanations - they can be produced in very large numbers.

                For me, though, the one explanation that is in line with my theory is that he wanted to conceal his name. And that is what I suggest in my book. I donīt go into extreme detail about how the alternative innocent explanations would work, the way I beleive Steve may have done (although I have not read the book, as I said).

                If you take this into account, you may understand how and why some books become thick, while others go in the other direction. It is never about the possibilities of much detail, therefore - it is about the relevance of the detail provided.

                Last edited by Fisherman; 07-07-2021, 11:08 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                  [I][B]>>
                  Christer claims it was brightly lit, I see no evidence to support that, as the lights were directed into the brewery not away from it, but it's irrelevant anyway, as the pair could be close and still not see the other.
                  Wearing their Raybans were they?

                  Cheers, George

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Pity you have not read the book Christer, but just to clear this up.

                    I don't go into long converluted arguments about the use of the name Cross. I simply present the facts, so it's two paragraphs, that's all.
                    Why so little?
                    Because that's all that's needed.

                    Steve









                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Hi Christer,

                      I am very glad that you have joined this discussion. When I first saw your Youtube presentation I was super-impressed with your research and thought, case closed. But since then, the terrible if's have accumulated and while I think that Lechmere cannot be eliminated as a suspect because he is the only person to be found standing over a body, there are some questions I would like to ask, but not all at once. First up is the question of clock times. I have done some research and have found that there was a clock tower in the Albion Brewery. I haven't been able to determine if it was multi-faced or if it chimed. Apparently some Brewery clocks did chime, some only the hour and others every quarter. This is to address time synchonicity. Paul stated that he turned into Bucks row at 3:45. Were the PCs basing their times on Albion clock time?

                      Big ask after 130 years I know, but there it is.

                      Cheers, George

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
                        Hi Christer,

                        I am very glad that you have joined this discussion. When I first saw your Youtube presentation I was super-impressed with your research and thought, case closed. But since then, the terrible if's have accumulated and while I think that Lechmere cannot be eliminated as a suspect because he is the only person to be found standing over a body, there are some questions I would like to ask, but not all at once. First up is the question of clock times. I have done some research and have found that there was a clock tower in the Albion Brewery. I haven't been able to determine if it was multi-faced or if it chimed. Apparently some Brewery clocks did chime, some only the hour and others every quarter. This is to address time synchonicity. Paul stated that he turned into Bucks row at 3:45. Were the PCs basing their times on Albion clock time?

                        Big ask after 130 years I know, but there it is.

                        Cheers, George

                        Hi, of course the only one of the 3 PCs who could see the Albion Brewery, was Thain.
                        Neither Neil or Mizen were in positionto see it, although they may have seen other clocks.

                        The issue of the non syncronization of time is of course very important in the murders.

                        I do consider it in some detail in "Inside Bucks Row", However, I also have a far more detailed look at this issue planned for an upcoming volume of my "Whitechapel Murders" series.
                        This will be a single, monogram like, volume looking at the issue of reported times.
                        It includes much modern research, showing discrepencies of 3-4 minutes, on different faces of the same clock, and a variation betweeen Public clocks of between 2-10 minutes which are within 800 yards of each other.
                        And thats with modern timekeeping and syncronization.

                        steve

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                          Wearing their Raybans were they?

                          Cheers, George
                          If the pair would have seen each other depends not so much on the light from the Brewery, but the exact location of the two as Paul left his house and Lechmere passed the bottom of Foster Street.

                          Steve

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                            Pity you have not read the book Christer, but just to clear this up.

                            I don't go into long converluted arguments about the use of the name Cross. I simply present the facts, so it's two paragraphs, that's all.
                            Why so little?
                            Because that's all that's needed.

                            Steve
                            As you may appreciate, telling you that I have not read the book, I donīt know what two paragraphs you used to write "all thatīs needed" about the name issue. If I may have a guess?

                            1. The carman did not use the name he otherwise used as he approached the police and inquest.
                            2. Changing names so as to evade responsibility or being identifiable is a common practice in the criinal ranks.

                            Please let me know if I guessed right. There is always the chance that what one person deems "all thatīs needed" is looked upon differently by somebody else.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
                              Hi Christer,

                              I am very glad that you have joined this discussion. When I first saw your Youtube presentation I was super-impressed with your research and thought, case closed. But since then, the terrible if's have accumulated and while I think that Lechmere cannot be eliminated as a suspect because he is the only person to be found standing over a body, there are some questions I would like to ask, but not all at once. First up is the question of clock times. I have done some research and have found that there was a clock tower in the Albion Brewery. I haven't been able to determine if it was multi-faced or if it chimed. Apparently some Brewery clocks did chime, some only the hour and others every quarter. This is to address time synchonicity. Paul stated that he turned into Bucks row at 3:45. Were the PCs basing their times on Albion clock time?

                              Big ask after 130 years I know, but there it is.

                              Cheers, George
                              I donīt think that any of the PCs revealed the source of their time estimates. I think Paul is the best source we have, since he said that it was "exactly" 3.45 as he came into Bucks Row. He was late and so he had reason to keep close track of the time. He also said at the inquest that "on the morning of the murder I left home just before a quarter to four." (Morning Advertiser), meaning that there is a consistency in his testimony. Add to this the fact that coroner Baxter ended up at a view of how the carmen would have found the body at 3.45 since that tallied with the testimony given by various independent sources, and that the latest police report we know of, from October, has Swanson telling us that the carmen found the body at 3.45.

                              ... but which clocks were used to establish the time is something we are by and large unknowledgeable about.

                              If you have any further questions, Iīd be happy to answer them. With any luck, we can win you over completely!
                              Last edited by Fisherman; 07-07-2021, 01:51 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Elamarna View Post


                                Hi, of course the only one of the 3 PCs who could see the Albion Brewery, was Thain.
                                Neither Neil or Mizen were in positionto see it, although they may have seen other clocks.

                                The issue of the non syncronization of time is of course very important in the murders.

                                I do consider it in some detail in "Inside Bucks Row", However, I also have a far more detailed look at this issue planned for an upcoming volume of my "Whitechapel Murders" series.
                                This will be a single, monogram like, volume looking at the issue of reported times.
                                It includes much modern research, showing discrepencies of 3-4 minutes, on different faces of the same clock, and a variation betweeen Public clocks of between 2-10 minutes which are within 800 yards of each other.
                                And thats with modern timekeeping and syncronization.

                                steve
                                Most clocks could be heard to, not only seen. To what degree the clocks were correct in 1888, we canīt say, since no check was carried out - or at least, no such information has been handed down to us. There is of course, always the Liverpool example, quoted here from a scientific paper:

                                "This paper explores how nineteenth-century Liverpool became such an advanced city with regard to public timekeeping, and the wider impact of this on the standardisation of time. From the mid-1840s, local scientists and municipal bodies in the port city were engaged in improving the ways in which accurate time was communicated to ships and the general public. As a result, Liverpool was the first British city to witness the formation of a synchronised clock system, based on an invention by Robert Jones. His method gained a considerable reputation in the scientific and engineering communities, which led to its subsequent replication at a number of astronomical observatories such as Greenwich and Edinburgh. As a further key example of developments in time-signalling techniques, this paper also focuses on the time ball established in Liverpool by the Electric Telegraph Company in collaboration with George Biddell Airy, the Astronomer Royal. This is a particularly significant development because, as the present paper illustrates, one of the most important technologies in measuring the accuracy of the Greenwich time signal took shape in the experimental operation of the time ball. The inventions and knowledge which emerged from the context of Liverpool were vital to the transformation of public timekeeping in Victorian Britain."

                                I seem to remember that London was not as early as Liverpool to synchronize the clocks, but we can see how timekeeping was regarded as an important matter in Victorian Britain.
                                Last edited by Fisherman; 07-07-2021, 01:47 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X