Was Lech known as Cross at Pickfords??

[Stephen Thomas]

"Sour, said the fox about the sorbberries."

Old Swedish proverb, especially for you, Sally

Aesop's fox couldn't jump high enough to get the grapes and comforted himself with the thought that they were probably sour.

Is the Swedish version different?

[Sally]

Already taken care of, Sally.

Fisherman

You think?

[Lechmere]

Sally
On the lodging house dwellers versus standard householders issue – are you trying to contend that the police were NOT predisposed to look upon residents from common lodging houses with more suspicion than regular householders? Are you of the opinion that the police did NOT put special effort throughout the Ripper investigation into scrutinising and checking out the local lodging houses?

Ben
If you wish to discount all memoirs (or even official reports for that matter) that include inaccuracies, are forgetful and at times muddled, then you will be discounting virtually all records relating to this case, from the top down.
Dew’s work – considering it was written 50 years after the murders - is in my opinion remarkably accurate.
If you wish to challenge the Charles Lechmere theory it might be useful to challenge on points of fact or by introducing evidence in support of your propositions rather than just putting forward what you think cudda wudda shudda happen. Just a suggestion. Don’t feel obliged to take it up.

DVV
I am glad you find this tread of interest. Lot’s of interesting observations have been made but I don’t believe any have been unanswered – which ones do you mean?
If Fisherman answers a point before I see it then I don’t always reply as sometimes I get ‘told off’ for being repetitive, and no one likes to be told off. But I will be pleased to give my take on whatever you feel was unanswered – satisfactorily I hope.

[Fisherman]

Sally:

"You think?"

I know.

Fisherman

[Sally]

And there, Fisherman, I'm afraid we must disagree.

Oh well.

Truth will out, as they say.

[Sally]

Sally
On the lodging house dwellers versus standard householders issue – are you trying to contend that the police were NOT predisposed to look upon residents from common lodging houses with more suspicion than regular householders? Are you of the opinion that the police did NOT put special effort throughout the Ripper investigation into scrutinising and checking out the local lodging houses?

Ed, I'm pretty sure you know that I'm not. Guess you've learned The Twist from your posting pal, eh?

Well done you!

[Fisherman]

Stephen Thomas:

"Aesop's fox couldn't jump high enough to get the grapes and comforted himself with the thought that they were probably sour.

Is the Swedish version different?"

Yes - and no. Bravo for finding the source, by the way! The difference inbetween the versions is that the Greek fox jumped in vain to get sweet grapes, and realizing that he would never reach them, he claimed they would be sour anyway.

The Swedish fox is jumping after sour berries from the outset - even if he could get to them, he would be deprived of his wish, since there was no real goods to get from the outset.

Need I say more...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Sally:

"Truth will out, as they say."

Uneasy feeling, eh?

Fisherman

[Sally]

Surely not Fish. After all, you know the truth about Hutchinson.

Don't you?

What else needs to be said?

[Sally]

The Swedish fox is jumping after sour berries from the outset - even if he could get to them, he would be deprived of his wish, since there was no real goods to get from the outset.

Need I say more...?

Sounds like a very silly fox to me Fish. Who'd waste their time jumping after sour berries?

Waste of time.

[DVV]

Definitely interesting, Lechmere - no lip service here. There are, for instance, excellent points about Paul.
But when it comes to Lechmere-the-Ripper I really think the thread has rather weakened his candidacy - thanks to Caz, Abby, Lucky, etc.
All that talk about the name(s), his coming forward, etc, I mean.
Frankly, if I have to compare to Hutch (since I don't believe it was his real name, nor that he was an innocent witness, hence the comparison), Lechmere-Cross really seems out of his depth.
To begin with, I fail to see how nor why the use of "Cross" would have saved the neck of the unlikely "Lechmere-the-Ripper".
It would have been far more simple to stab Paul to death.

[Fisherman]

How deviously clever, Sally! I´m impressed, as ever. I havent heard such cunning remarks since my kids left kindergarten!

How about discussing the subject instead, now that you´ve geared up?

Oh, and goodnight, by the way!

The best,
Fisherman

[Stephen Thomas]

The Swedish fox is jumping after sour berries from the outset - even if he could get to them, he would be deprived of his wish, since there was no real goods to get from the outset.

Them Swedish foxes sound well stupid.

[DVV]

You just created zooracism, Stephen.

[Lechmere]

DVV
Serial killers tend to select victims that they can easily dominate - that is why women, children and the elderly massively predominate as victims. They seldom attack able bodied men and seldom would even consider doing so. You will have difficulty finding any examples of a serial killer who’s MO is to attack women for example, turning on an able bodied man either as an alternative victim or if interrupted.
Hence if the Ripper (whoever he might have been) was interrupted and caught in the act with no opportunity to escape, I very much doubt he would have used his knife on the person who interrupted him. It is unlikely to have even occurred to him to do so.
In my opinion Charles Lechmere – presuming of course that he was the Ripper – would not have even thought about using his knife on Paul.

As for the name swap, we have no idea why he did it or the circumstances that surrounded him actually giving his name. We can only guess.
In my opinion it is almost certainly the case that he gave his details at a police station on Sunday early evening. The nearest police station to his house was Bethnal Green which wasn’t PC Mizen’s station. As Sunday wasn’t a work day I would guess he went there as opposed to Commercial Street which was almost on his way to work.

We know that he always called himself Lechmere when dealing with a whole array of authorities. We know of not one single instance when he called himself Cross.
He was very precise in that he never missed a single registration on the electoral register from 1890 (when registration became more or less universal for males) until his death despite moving five times.
His children left school and started at a new school in June 1888 without missing a single day’s education.
All his many children were formally baptised.
He seems to have held down a steady job at the same place for over 30 years.
He was able to save up enough money to then open up a grocery shop and left a tidy sum in his will when he died.
His genuine family name was one to be proud of.
His step father Thomas Cross had been dead for 19 years. He was only about 13 years older than his step son. Not much of a father figure.
We have 90 instances where Charles Lechmere (or his blood relatives) named himself or his family Lechmere and not one instance when he was called Cross – apart from in the 1861 census when he was a child and his stepfather would have filled out the forms.
This all makes it somewhat strange that Charles Lechmere chose to call himself Cross when he went to (probably) Bethnal Green police station on the Sunday evening.
To just dismiss this oddity as of no consequence is to my mind ridiculous.
Particularly when this man had been found by another (Paul) by the body of a murdered woman, and he was seen very close to the body before having raised the alarm.

If guilty why would he use that name while giving the police his correct address and workplace?
My best guess is that he wanted to keep his involvement from his wife – which is backed up by his attending the inquest in his work clothes and by his probable avoidance of giving his address in open court.

He may have given his name to the police first, without realising that he would also be asked his address and workplace. When subsequently asked these details he may have realised that he must answer truthfully as if he was checked out he would be back to square one and be the subject of a man hunt.
We can speculate endlessly but to claim that there is nothing odd about this man giving the name Cross instead of Lechmere is unrealistic.