Was Lech known as Cross at Pickfords??

[Lechmere]

Yes the simple truth is that there is nothing whatsoever to suggest the police looked at all deeply at Charles Lechmere - even as a witness possibly against Paul - who they do seem to have suspected and who is the best fit for the 'bucks Row suspect'.
The police should have but they made repeated mistakes throughout the investigation.
In any case - Paul was himself soon cleared - had he not been for some reason, then Charles Lechmere may have had something to fear.

Or is Ben suggesting perhaps that Paul wasn't a suspect for a period? I am so silly that sOmetimes I can't tell what he is going on about.

Caz - I would caution against joining in as a threesome with Ben and sal - you need to feel for bumps on your scalp I think.

[DVV]

Caz - I would caution against joining in as a threesome with Ben and sal - you need to feel for bumps on your scalp I think.

Hi Lechmere
I've enjoyed following the thread and I'm afraid there is more than a threesome in front of Lechmere-the-Ripper.
Excellent objections have been made by Mr Lucky and Abby Normal, for example, and are still unanswered.

[Ben]

Hi Fisherman,

If you with "this" mean Dew´s text, I beg to disagree. When retired policemen speak of their experiences, what they say will reasonably be coloured by the thoughts shared with the working comrades from their service time. Nothing strange with that

But then how do you account for Dew's opinion that the GSG was unrelated to the murders, when it completely contradicted the views of his police superiors as expressed at the time of the murders? If we didn't have the latter on record, I suppose you'd be arguing that Dew's comments prove that the "the police" as a collective believed that the killer did not chalk the message, and of course you'd be totally wrong. Dew's opinion is utterly at odds with the police on this matter.

This is why it's so essential not to treat Dew's thoughts as being in any way representative of the views of the police at the time. His memory is demonstrably hazy on a number of issues, and had he remembered that Paul arrived on the scene later than Cross, he'd give no credence at all to the proposal that he was the killer because, as Caz points out, the idea of the killer returning to the crime scene and walking past the body's discoverer is just ludicrous.

If you don't want Cross to have been "checked out" by the police, you should at the very least dispose of the argument that Paul was investigated as a suspect. Had the latter occurred, it is utterly inconceivable that Cross would not have been looked into as a possible suspect or accomplice.

All the best,
Ben

[Ben]

Caz - I would caution against joining in as a threesome with Ben and sal

Wow, doesn't funny ol' Fetchbeer get personal when his ideas are challenged, and so soon after bemoaning the "adversarial" nature of message board discussions? To echo David's point, if you think there are only three people challenging your Cross theory, I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken.

[Fisherman]

Ben:

"...then how do you account for Dew's opinion..."

No matter WHAT opinion we speak of, I account for the misses as slips of his mind. But that does not change the overall picture that people writing their memoirs actually will give useful pictures of the contexts they are speaking of.

Most memoirs will contain someting that can be questioned - but as dar as I can tell, that has not led to an overall impression that we should regard them generally as bad pictures of the working lifes they describe. End of story. Unless you are going to claim that biopgraphies on the whole cannot be said to represent the lifes of those who wrote them and giver a generally truthful picture of things? Or that we should not treat Dew´s memoirs like we treat all other memoirs? It´s a free world, Ben.

... and you take full advantage of it, I see! Did you see what you wrote? You wrote that we should not regard Dew´s memoirs as "in any way representative" of the views of the police at the time. That´s amazing, Ben. Let´s look at a few sentences:

"One of the greatest problems of the police in the bad old days were organized gangs."

Bogus, huh - that was something Dew thought up himself. The police could not care less.

"It is true that the first assumption of the police was that the woman had been attacked by one of the Whitechapel blackmailing gangs"

Nah - not true. Dew´s sentiments only.

"Police efforts were not relaxed. The reverse was the case. Realizing now something of the enormity of the problem by which they were faced, the authorities drafted a large number of extra detectives from Scotland Yard and various Divisions to the East End."

Balderdash.

"What was the motive? This was the question we were always up against. There seemed to be none, unless the killer was wreaking his vengeance against a class."

What would Dew know about that? He probably makes this up.

"I knew Dr. Phillips well."

Braggard!

"Speaking from my own experience, I can only say that I always found both the detective and uniformed branches of the City police ready and willing to help."

Don´t believe him! He makes it up as he goes along.

"The first information led the police to believe the girl was last seen alive, except by her slayer, at midnight, when she was seen by a neighbour, Mary Cox, walking in the direction of her home."

No, no, no, no ... guesswork!

Really, Ben. You can´t go to any lengths in cases like these. Dew´s memoirs are memoirs shaped by the context in which he worked. As such, they give invaluable insights into the beliefs and methods of the police.

"If you don't want Cross to have been "checked out" by the police, you should at the very least dispose of the argument that Paul was investigated as a suspect."

Knowing that Dew painted him out as a very suspicious character and knowing that he was dragged out of his bed by the police and questioned, give me one good reason for doing that. It would be ludicrous.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

David:

"Excellent objections have been made by Mr Lucky and Abby Normal, for example, and are still unanswered."

Well, we can´t have that, can we? Which "excellent points" are we talking about? Tell me, and I will see to it.

The best,
Fisherman

[Sally]

Wow, doesn't funny ol' Fetchbeer get personal when his ideas are challenged, and so soon after bemoaning the "adversarial" nature of message board discussions? To echo David's point, if you think there are only three people challenging your Cross theory, I'm afraid you're sorely mistaken.

I know a poll about that...

[Sally]

Sally:

"By then, I expect we'll all have something else to say about Hutchinson. "

Agreed!

The best,
Fisherman

Make sure you know what your'e agreeing to first Fish. That'd be my advice.

[Fisherman]

Already taken care of, Sally.

Fisherman

[DVV]

David:

"Excellent objections have been made by Mr Lucky and Abby Normal, for example, and are still unanswered."

Well, we can´t have that, can we? Which "excellent points" are we talking about? Tell me, and I will see to it.

The best,
Fisherman

Lechmere did not reply, but you did - as you always do : no retreat, no surrender, that I grant you heartily-, though unsatisfactorily in my opinion.
Several points, here and there... just ask them if they're convinced...

[Fisherman]

David:

"unsatisfactorily in my opinion"

I can live with that - it was not exactly unexpected.

I dislike the "several points" mumble. Speak out, and thy questions shalt be answered!

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

David:

"unsatisfactorily in my opinion"

I can live with that - it was not exactly unexpected.

Well, Lechmere's candidacy IS interesting and shrewdly built. Not on my top-list, though, but I wouldn't mock it.

I dislike the "several points mumble.

I can live with that...

Speak out, and thy questions shalt be answered!

Oh, but you've already (unsatisfactorily) answered, my friend !

[Fisherman]

David:

"Lechmere's candidacy IS interesting and shrewdly built."

It´s SOUNDLY built. Different matter.

"I can live with that..."

Touché!

"Oh, but you've already (unsatisfactorily) answered, my friend !"

Aha. Well, then!

The best,
Fisherman

[moonbegger]

Hello,Hello,Hello,

Are we still stuck on that Landing beach ?

moonbegger .

[Fisherman]

Only some, Moonbegger - only some.

The best,
Fisherman