Was Lech known as Cross at Pickfords??

[Abby Normal]

Whats the probability that :

A) Lech was known as Cross at Pickfords?


B) The police found Lech at work the day of the inquest in which he appeared?



The reason I ask these questions, because one of the main points that those who favor Lech as a suspect is that he gave a "false" name. If he started work at Pickfords when he was still known as Cross then that could be an explanation for why he gave his name as Cross to the police, especially if they found him at work and brought him to the inquest (which would also explain why he was wearing his work clothes at the inquest).

[Lechmere]

It seems inconceivable that the police could have found him at Pickfords that quickly.
Prior to his contact with the police in the aftermath of his bypassing Mizen without giving any personal details, it is clear the police knew nothing about his identity save that he may possibly have looked like a carman.
The police clearly took some time to track Robert Paul down and they had his name - and if they began a house to house search or door to door enquiry eastwards from Bucks Row theywould have found Paul quite quickly.
On the Saturday at the inquest the police were in ignorance of the two carmen. The window of opportunity to find Charles Lechmere at Pickfords was miniscule.

[Debra A]

Is there a Pickfords' archive that could settle the question of what name he used there at least?

[Cogidubnus]

Was he Cross at Pickfords?

Hi Ed

So let's just get this clear...are you arguing that the police didn't know where to find Cross, (presumably because Mizen was either too thick, or too gullible, to follow procedure, and take down the details)...and that Cross come forward voluntarily to the police, before the inquest, but carefully and without giving his employers details? (presumably because he knew he'd conned Paul, and conned Mizen and nobody had a clue who he was anyway, and he could con all the other coppers just like that?).

I thought your contention was that Cross had come forward to the police before the inquest because he thought Paul's statements to the press might otherwise incriminate him...surely if he came forward to the police before the inquest at all, they would've, (belatedly perhaps), noted down his particulars at that time, and so, on the morning of the inquest, would've known exactly where to find him (Pickfords) and under what name (Cross) at short notice...

If on the other hand, as the murderer, he didn't report to the police before the inquest, then why on earth did he turn up in front of Coroner Baxter at all? He was clean away...

Still puzzled

Dave

[Debra A]

If on the other hand, as the murderer, he didn't report to the police before the inquest, then why on earth did he turn up in front of Coroner Baxter at all? He was clean away...

Still puzzled

Dave

This is true, Dave. A good point.

[Bridewell]

The police clearly took some time to track Robert Paul down and they had his name - and if they began a house to house search or door to door enquiry eastwards from Bucks Row theywould have found Paul quite quickly.

But having once found Paul, how difficult would it be to trace Lechmere? The two men spent a good few minutes in each other's company and were both walking to their places of employment. It seems entirely plausible that Cross told his companion where he worked and vice versa.

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

Pickford's

Hello Debs. I contacted Pickford's several weeks ago. They did not answer my inquiry.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

I await a reply from Ed

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. I contacted Pickford's several weeks ago. They did not answer my inquiry.

Cheers.
LC

OK, thanks, Lynn. Maybe the NA then?

[lynn cates]

Kew

Hello Debs. Thanks. I'd be astonished if they had, but who knows? May be worth a go.

How about the LMA?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Thanks. I'd be astonished if they had, but who knows? May be worth a go.

How about the LMA?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
The NA catalogue threw up quite a lot of hits for 'Pickfords' when I did a quick search last night but I didn't look at any of them in detail to see what they related to specifically.

[Fisherman]

Debra:

"Is there a Pickfords' archive that could settle the question of what name he used there at least?"

Edwardīs explored that avenue - with no result, Iīm afraid.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Dave:

"So let's just get this clear...are you arguing that the police didn't know where to find Cross..."

Not until he had spoken to them on his own initiative, no. And our best guess is that he did so on Sunday, AFTER Paulīs interview in the press.

"(presumably because Mizen was either too thick, or too gullible, to follow procedure, and take down the details)"

Read the Echo, Dave: Mizen NOW knew the mans name to be Cross, and he had had it confirmed that he really WAS a carman, just as Mizen had expected. Itīs pretty decisive - Mizen did not take their names down, since he felt certain that his fake colleague had taken care of that.

"...and that Cross come forward voluntarily to the police, before the inquest, but carefully and without giving his employers details?"

Nope. He would have give the employers details and his address alright - but kept the name Lechmere away from the searchlight.

"I thought your contention was that Cross had come forward to the police before the inquest because he thought Paul's statements to the press might otherwise incriminate him..."

True, Dave - true!

"surely if he came forward to the police before the inquest at all, they would've, (belatedly perhaps), noted down his particulars at that time, and so, on the morning of the inquest, would've known exactly where to find him (Pickfords) and under what name (Cross) at short notice..."

Yes, they would know where to find him. But why would they go to Pickfords to pick him up if they had already summoned him to the inquest on Sunday? If he had agreed to show, why send someone to fetch him?

"If on the other hand, as the murderer, he didn't report to the police before the inquest, then why on earth did he turn up in front of Coroner Baxter at all?"

For the exact same reason as outlined ad nauseum - to save his own skin. If he did not contact the police on Sunday, then they would not know where to find him, and if he came to the inquest then he did so on his own initiative. The reason, though, would have been the exact same - he knew that he had been implicated as standing where the body was - alone ...

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Colin:

" having once found Paul, how difficult would it be to trace Lechmere? The two men spent a good few minutes in each other's company and were both walking to their places of employment. It seems entirely plausible that Cross told his companion where he worked and vice versa."

Lechmere knew where Paul worked since he turned into Corbettīs court - but that seemingly had Lechmere a bit surprised. Apparently, he did not know where he worked before that. So why would Paul necessarily know where Lechmere worked? They did not swop names and both confessed to never having seen their counterparts before. Seemingly total strangers, thus.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Colin!

One more check tells me that Paul does not say that he had never met Lechmere before - but he speaks very generally of " a man" and does not give any sign at all that he did know anything about Lechmere.

The latter one says that he had never seen the other man (Paul) before, and he also says that he "appeared to be a carman" - meaning that he had reasonably not asked him about that, and that Paul had evidently not said anything about his job either.

The best,
Fisherman