Cross The Ripper?

[Phil H]

It's interesting how SUBJECTIVE comments become FACTS for some of our posters.

Precisely WHERE L/C was in relation to Polly's body is entirely a matter of what people said. What is clear is that he was as close to the body of a murdered woman as any named individual we know of bar Diemschutz. Add to that, no other person was seen leaving the murder scene even though Nichols' body was allegedly still warm, maybe even still alive.

We are happy to contemplate a murderer hiding in the shadows watching Cross and paul, but not to consider the one man discovered very close to a body.

Moreover a man who's route to work would have made him familiar and put him in close proximity (and possibly at the right time) to the murder scenes of two other victims. A man, who - though supposedly wholly innocent - for the one and only time in his life gives something other than his usual name to the police.

The hysterical attempts to "quibble" over WHERE L/C was standing strike me as an attempt to rule out rigorous scrutiny of the man - usually because he doesn't fit some preconceived theory - because his candidacy is inconvenient to the quibblers.

I have NO preconceived view of the case - discussions on this board has opened my mind to many possibilities. But I know this - if I was a policeman in 1888 and I knew what we now know about L/C's subterfuge in regard to his name, then I would want to look at him very closely.

We are now analysing in close detail the words and context of what was written by senior policemen and officials (with some claim to integrity). We are open to consideration of previously closed areas such as a Fenian angle. A hitherto unknown contemporary suspect such as Tumblety goes straight to the top of the heap because he is mentioned by an officer only tangentially connected to the case.

And yet some of us remain lukewarm or even cole about a liar found standing over the still warm body of a Ripper victim when there is no clear evidence that he was either investigated or exhonerated at the time. I find that attitude amazing.

Phil H

[Sally]

Vote

When I voted in this poll, I didn't vote for 'Highly Improbable'.

How improbable is that???

If I could vote again, I might change my mind.

I'm surprised that the vote for Cross hasn't gone through the roof, frankly, considering how its endorsed by not one, but TWO authors and experts

[Phil H]

I think any "opposition" is less to the poll and its methodology, than (in some quarters at least) to having to consider Cross/Lechmere (C/L) as a suspect at all!! but that's just MHO.

As I have said on several occasions, I think it would be HUGELY ironic if one of the first NAMED people anyone reads about in the Ripper case - since man books start with the Nichols killing, was ro emerge as a killer of at least some of the women.

Circumstantially (and I emphasise that word deliberately) I think a case could be made out for looking in depth at C/L for Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes given his likely routes to work. As I don't think (on balance) Stride and Kelly are Ripper victims, that puts C/L in a good position to be the considered the "killer usually known as JtR".

I also note that the Pinchen St torso was found close to the alleged home of C/L's relatives - that may or may not be significant. Either put there by C/L as killer (???? unlikely unless he was forced to abandon it) or by the torso-killer as some sort of mesage(??).

NOTE: I do not think C/L - at least on present evidence - to be a prime suspect. Nonetheless, I think his behaviour, where he was found, route to work etc - make him worthy of greater scrutiny than he has ever been afforded in the past.

Phil H

[Robert]

Aren't Mr Holmgren and Mr Stow one and the same person?

[Scott Nelson]

I suspect the spirit of Charlie Cross is looking down on all this nonsense and laughing very hard. They don't allow crying in heaven.

[Bridewell]

Misquoted?

Extracts from the Telegraph article:

Mr Stow said: "We think it (was) Charles Cross, the first person who found that first body. He was seen crouching over Polly Nichols

No he wasn't.

and he was trying to cover up some of the wounds.

Pure supposition.

"He hasn't been the subject of a lot of investigation and has only crept up very vaguely in census records.
"We have found out that he gave a false name to the police.

An alias name, by which he had been known earlier in life.

His real name was Charles Latchmere.

Lechmere. Presumably this is a journalistic error.

"He walked past every single murder scene on his way to work.

You have to wonder why he went via Berner Street.

I'm assuming that Christer & Edward have been misquoted by the Telegraph in the article.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Sally]

Cross?

I am monumentally underwhelmed by Cross and his leaning over bodies and touching faces and false names and having a cat that strayed near Berner Street one day.

But, on the other hand, young Tommy Cutbush is another thing altogether. Dark horse.

He had a cat that strayed near Berner Street? Why did nobody mention this before??

An unequivocal indication of guilt.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Really? I'm not. I'm sincerely un-amazed. And I bet I'm not the only one un-amazed either.

Of course, if one makes exaggerated claims to the public they are bound to lap it up. It doesn't make the case against Cross any stronger than it is.

Cross?

I am monumentally underwhelmed by Cross and his leaning over bodies and touching faces and false names and having a cat that strayed near Berner Street one day.

But, on the other hand, young Tommy Cutbush is another thing altogether. Dark horse.

[Garza]

And covered up by the IWMC!

[Cogidubnus]

Richardson's knife most likely!

Dave

[Sally]

Oh he is. In another hundred years he'll have the knife in his hand...

[Bridewell]

In the Times, in 1888, he was "standing in the middle of the road".

In the Telegraph, in 2012, he's:

crouching over the body

You've got to admit, he is getting closer!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Garza]

Am I right in saying that Cross was the only civilian seen alone with one of the dead victims?

[Sally]

It seems Cross should have a thread of his own on the suspects page (incidentally, I'm amazed to see that neither he nor Thomas Cutbush appear on the 'main page' as suspects)

Really? I'm not. I'm sincerely un-amazed. And I bet I'm not the only one un-amazed either.

Of course, if one makes exaggerated claims to the public they are bound to lap it up. It doesn't make the case against Cross any stronger than it is.

[Sara]

In case it hasn't been logged elsewhere today, there is a piece about Cross a a possible Jack on the Telegraph website today, citing research by Holmgren and Stow. Sorry but it's so long since I was on here I can't remember if they are members here or not!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9512928/Was-Jack-the-Ripper-a-cart-driver-from-Bethnal-Green.html

It seems Cross should have a thread of his own on the suspects page (incidentally, I'm amazed to see that neither he nor Thomas Cutbush appear on the 'main page' as suspects)