So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel?

[Monty]

How likely would it be for a serial killer to hang around a body awaiting the arrival of a witness coming down the road to ID him and make an alibi?

My position on this would be "highly unlikely". Yet if people want to use certain unrealistic criteria for Cross, then we can apply it here also.

This was raised nigh on five years ago, and still hasnt been addressed (along with many other issues)

Essentially Cross unnecessarily pulls in two witnesses to his presence in and near to Bucks Row.

There has been no progression. All talk, little evidence.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Lechmere/Cross obviously wasn't paying too much attention whilst walking to walk, because he of all people had the better chance of seeing the murderer walking/running away from the scene. Which way would the Ripper have gone to avoid bumping into Lech or Paul??

There was no other Ripper. One suffices. And Lechmere said that in that silent night, he heard or saw absolutely noone up at the body as he stepped into Bucks Row, and asserted that if there HAD been anybody there, he would have noticed.
The fact of the matter is that we do not need to introduce any phantom killer.

[Harry D]

Lechmere said that in that silent night, he heard or saw absolutely noone up at the body as he stepped into Bucks Row, and asserted that if there HAD been anybody there, he would have noticed.

Shooting himself in the foot there, if he was the killer, no?

[Fisherman]

This was raised nigh on five years ago, and still hasnt been addressed (along with many other issues)

Essentially Cross unnecessarily pulls in two witnesses to his presence in and near to Bucks Row.

There has been no progression. All talk, little evidence.

Monty

How would you want that "progression" to look, and that evidence? A CCTV camera film, capturing Lechmere as he stepped back and waited for Paul?

All talk, little evidence, by the way - is that not a very good description of how people out here say "he would have run", without bolstering that take on things with anything else but their own convictions?

What HAS been produced is information about a number of psychological and physiological traits linked to sociopathy, such as an inability to panic, a lack of fleeing reflexes and a will and ability to engage in playing games and lying.

That is of course not evidence for how Lechmere was a psychopath. But it IS something that should tell us that, just as Andy Griffiths said, there was perhaps never a chance that he would have run at all.

I have said before that this is a matter that cannot and will not be resolved by people engaging in mudslinging and manure throwing, and that stands today too.

We cannot know that he would never have run. We cannot know that he would have run. Both measures would have had possible benefits and drawbacks. So in essence, asserting that either alternative MUST apply is useless.

[Fisherman]

Shooting himself in the foot there, if he was the killer, no?

Let´s be circular and admit that neither he himself nor his foot seems to have suffered any damage at all by it. Of course, he COULD have said that he heard the killer run off down Bucks Row, towards Bakers Row.

But guess what would happen if there was a witness there who saw and heard nobody? Exactly, in THAT case, Lechmere would have provided himself with a hole in his foot.

[Batman]

This was raised nigh on five years ago, and still hasnt been addressed (along with many other issues)

Essentially Cross unnecessarily pulls in two witnesses to his presence in and near to Bucks Row.

There has been no progression. All talk, little evidence.

Monty

If there were any JtR crime scenes that stood a better chance running away from, it's either Buck's row or Berner St.

Even people who think Cross is JtR need him running away from all the other crimes... just not this one. The reason why he needs to run away from all the other crimes... and just not just one... is because apparently discovering all the bodies on his way to work would just be a little too convenient... but 'finding' one is ok for JtR... and giving away his correct Christian name... heck, maybe his surname too if we accept recent revelations that Cross used Cross other times because it was his stepdad's surname.

[Fisherman]

A timely reminder - those who want to discuss the topic of the thread should preferably discuss the geographic implications of the Lechmere candidacy. All the other stuff have all the other threads to engage in.

[Batman]

Crow walked through his door at 3.30am after finishing work, meaning that unlike Cross, he was free at the relevant hours.

Using the Lechmerian criteria for guilt, Crow is a better candidate because he doesn't make contact with the police after being meters away from her body at around her time of death and is geographically smack in the middle of the hot zone, and has less walking to do to each of the murder sites (falls out of bed into Tabram's murder scene), than Cross... and let's forget about just walking for a moment, because Crow drove a cab also. So there is the added bonus of having wheels for Michael Cane to chase about.

[Abby Normal]

Using the Lechmerian criteria for guilt, Crow is a better candidate because he doesn't make contact with the police after being meters away from her body at around her time of death and is geographically smack in the middle of the hot zone, and has less walking to do to each of the murder sites (falls out of bed into Tabram's murder scene), than Cross... and let's forget about just walking for a moment, because Crow drove a cab also. So there is the added bonus of having wheels for Michael Cane to chase about.

I do find it a bit odd that crow had to walk right past the body and didn't notice anything out of place. I mean shes laying on her back, legs spread, skirt pushed up covered in blood. even if he could just make the outlines of her body surely that's not the way one would sleep there. it must have been close to zero visibility, and I find that hard to believe.

[Monty]

“We cannot know that he would never have run. We cannot know that he would have run. Both measures would have had possible benefits and drawbacks. So in essence, asserting that either alternative MUST apply is useless”.

So the point of flight or stand is NOW a moot one.

How wonderfully beneficial.

The evidence sought is not pyshcological, rather supportive. Are there any other examples of such behaviour?

Monty

[Monty]

A timely reminder - those who want to discuss the topic of the thread should preferably discuss the geographic implications of the Lechmere candidacy. All the other stuff have all the other threads to engage in.

I find this reminder odd. Seeing as many an unassociated thread has been hijacked by Cross theorists.

Strange.

Monty

[Fisherman]

“We cannot know that he would never have run. We cannot know that he would have run. Both measures would have had possible benefits and drawbacks. So in essence, asserting that either alternative MUST apply is useless”.

So the point of flight or stand is NOW a moot one.

How wonderfully beneficial.

The evidence sought is not pyshcological, rather supportive. Are there any other examples of such behaviour?

Monty

There were a few instances mentioned by posters (like f ex Abby Normal), who had themselves been witnesses to criminals stopping and bluffing it out. But all in all, the question is a moot one - again; there have been lots of examples of serial killings where things happened for the first time.
Let´s also remember that what you are asking for is examples of killers who have feigned a role as witnesses. I posted one such case myself a year or two ago, but it may well be that there are cases where the perp was not disclosed.

If you want to make a case for it being impossible for a killer to stay put and bluff it out, be my guest.

If you want to make a case for it being a very rare thing, I will support you, because it is.

All you have to do is to decide which of the options you wish to go with.

[Fisherman]

I find this reminder odd. Seeing as many an unassociated thread has been hijacked by Cross theorists.

Strange.

Monty

Well, it´s up to you to either try and keep track of the subject or not to give a damn about it. I can only ask you to stay on track, and if you wish to discuss other matters, I can point you to a suitable thread.

It´s that easy.

[Abby Normal]

“We cannot know that he would never have run. We cannot know that he would have run. Both measures would have had possible benefits and drawbacks. So in essence, asserting that either alternative MUST apply is useless”.

So the point of flight or stand is NOW a moot one.

How wonderfully beneficial.

The evidence sought is not pyshcological, rather supportive. Are there any other examples of such behaviour?

Monty

no its not moot. you just cant claim somebody MUST behave a certain way.

and lech, unlike all other witnesses, wasnt seen for the first time trying to raise the alarm or get help, hes seen standing near the body before trying to do so. odd that no?

I have an example of something similar I experienced, although the person didnt walk with me to find a cop, but instructed me to. and when I came back he was gone. part of the reason i have a little bit of empathy for the lech bluff idea.


now all that being said, yes a killers first instinct would be to bolt the first sign of someone coming-dosnt mean they MUST.

[Batman]

I do find it a bit odd that crow had to walk right past the body and didn't notice anything out of place. I mean shes laying on her back, legs spread, skirt pushed up covered in blood. even if he could just make the outlines of her body surely that's not the way one would sleep there. it must have been close to zero visibility, and I find that hard to believe.

I hope you don't me talking about this over at this link instead -> https://forum.casebook.org/showthrea...=10991&page=87

I think I just wanted to add here that Crow could be modelled on the same criteria that some people have for Cross being JtR and therefore things geographically point at Crow more, at least.