So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel?

[Sam Flynn]

Come on now, Harry, don´t be shy - you´ve been handed a very useful candidate to turn into a suspect. Lawende was born in 1847, so he covers the 1873 victim

What's the 1873 victim got to do with it? Your opinion that the torso murderer (singular) was responsible for all the torso cases and the Ripper murders is entirely speculative and, if wrong - which it certainly is - it can only lead us to include some unworthy suspects and reject stronger ones. That's bad form, so let's keep the focus on what we know about the Ripper murders alone, shall we?

he was known to frequent the murder area, he lived in Dalston, two or three miles north of the killing fields and he was involved in another murder case as a witness back in 1876, so he is linked to at least two murders, and he was in the habit of dining in Great Alie Street in the seventies, a habit he may have carried into the eighties too.

Surely that makes a good ground for creating as good a suspect as Lechmere? If you put your mind to it? You can even turn speculation into fact, if you wish, but of course, you will run the risk of being revealed for it.

And hey, Lawende was a foreigner of Polish extraction. Didn´t Mrs Long say that her man was around 40 (Lawende was 41) and gave a foreign impression?

Maybe it´s time to come good on your suggestion?

Plucking strawman suspects out of the (vanishingly small) group of known individuals connected with the case isn't a particularly useful thing to do, unless your intention is to underline how weak most of your arguments against Cross really are.

[Fisherman]

Speculation can be easily manipulated into "fact". That's the problem.

It's been done already, MrB:

https://www.casebook.org/suspects

Come on now, Harry, don´t be shy - you´ve been handed a very useful candidate to turn into a suspect. Lawende was born in 1847, so he covers the 1873 victim, he was known to frequent the murder area, he lived in Dalston, two or three miles north of the killing fields and he was involved in another murder case as a witness back in 1876, so he is linked to at least two murders, and he was in the habit of dining in Great Alie Street in the seventies, a habit he may have carried into the eighties too.

Surely that makes a good ground for creating as good a suspect as Lechmere? If you put your mind to it? You can even turn speculation into fact, if you wish, but of course, you will run the risk of being revealed for it.

And hey, Lawende was a foreigner of Polish extraction. Didn´t Mrs Long say that her man was around 40 (Lawende was 41) and gave a foreign impression?

Maybe it´s time to come good on your suggestion?

[MrBarnett]

Thanks Gary,

Not to say they are suspects or even the same people, but, in your 1889 census the names George Barber and Frank Hewitt Jr are interesting. The ‘Reverand’ George Veck of Cleveland Street Scandal fame went by the alias of George Barber. His 17 year old lover was Frank Hewitt who also used the alias of George Barber. It was Hewitt that introduced Henry Newlove to the house on Cleveland Street. Maybe this is the connection I’ve been looking for to link Conway Jr as a recruiter to the house also? Looks like a nice a avenue to pursue.

Glad to have been of assistance, Jerry.

[jerryd]

I'm not saying it couldn't be done. If you pick the right person, it might be an interesting exercise. I'd be more than happy to help, and perhaps contrary to appeances I'm not a confirmed Lechmerian, so I would do my utmost to support your chosen suspect's candidacy.

Thanks Gary,

Not to say they are suspects or even the same people, but, in your 1889 census the names George Barber and Frank Hewitt Jr are interesting. The ‘Reverand’ George Veck of Cleveland Street Scandal fame went by the alias of George Barber. His 17 year old lover was Frank Hewitt who also used the alias of George Barber. It was Hewitt that introduced Henry Newlove to the house on Cleveland Street. Maybe this is the connection I’ve been looking for to link Conway Jr as a recruiter to the house also? Looks like a nice a avenue to pursue.

[Batman]

I thought Bond’s opinion was that the killer didn’t even possess the technical knowledge of a horse slaughterer or a butcher.

Actually, you are right. He even ruled out a horse slaughterer, butcher or anyone with any anatomical experience at all.

[harry]

Fisherman,in reply to your post 572.
Nothing about Griffiths nags me.It was not me but you that introduced his name and accomplishments.You do not like my reply,then simply do not use his name.It's as simple as that.As for smearing anyones reputation,I am way behind you in that department.You quote a profile of a person that includes innacuraces,then be prepared for a correction.We are asked too many times here to accept the words of persons not posting.If those persons no not like the responses,then let them take offense at the introducer,or better still,come on the boards and explain themselves.

[Sam Flynn]

now stop being such a nocfollius tumbletwat.

Tumbletwat... the most incompetent Ripper suspect of them all.

[MrBarnett]

It is Bond dashing the idea that JtR was a medical person or showed any signs of medical experience. He said a horse slaughter could do it. I don't think he meant a horse slaughter was JtR but that JtR didn't need any medical experience to do what he did.

I thought Bond’s opinion was that the killer didn’t even possess the technical knowledge of a horse slaughterer or a butcher.

[Batman]

The soldiers in question were supposedly clients.

Can you explain your point about horse slaughterers? That’s an aspect of the case that I’m particularly interested in.

It is Bond dashing the idea that JtR was a medical person or showed any signs of medical experience. He said a horse slaughter could do it. I don't think he meant a horse slaughter was JtR but that JtR didn't need any medical experience to do what he did.

[MrBarnett]

I find it almost baffling that neither investigators nor the press, actually suggested that JtR was probably one of their clients, until after Mary Jane Kelly.

There were street gangs blamed.
There were soldiers blamed.
There was the killer butcher Jew, Leather Apron, Pizer, blamed.
Then was Dr. Jack the Ripper after Philips and the black bag man witnessed around Berner St.
Then horse-slaughter after Bond did the meta-analysis of the cases.

Finally Bond comes up with this profile and idea that JtR would probably seem quite normal and even friendly with the women he intended to hurt.

Also, it looked like MJK had taken a client back to her accommodation with her. So they figured out JtR probably wasn't looking like a ghoul.

I accept the press did indicate the women were taking these men to their own unforeseen doom, but did they really suggest it was a client they knew well? I think not.

The soldiers in question were supposedly clients.

Can you explain your point about horse slaughterers? That’s an aspect of the case that I’m particularly interested in.

[MrBarnett]

pettifogging LOL great word. now stop being such a nocfollius tumbletwat.

lol!

If they’re not real words, they should be.

[Batman]

I am not sure it is fair to say the victims did not care there was a murderer about - though the use of quotes maybe suggests you think they were forced onto the streets regardless. My own theory is that the murderer was a regular user of prostitutes or someone well known in the area. Someone who the women trusted, or at least did not fear.

I find it almost baffling that neither investigators nor the press, actually suggested that JtR was probably one of their clients, until after Mary Jane Kelly.

There were street gangs blamed.
There were soldiers blamed.
There was the killer butcher Jew, Leather Apron, Pizer, blamed.
Then was Dr. Jack the Ripper after Philips and the black bag man witnessed around Berner St.
Then horse-slaughter after Bond did the meta-analysis of the cases.

Finally Bond comes up with this profile and idea that JtR would probably seem quite normal and even friendly with the women he intended to hurt.

Also, it looked like MJK had taken a client back to her accommodation with her. So they figured out JtR probably wasn't looking like a ghoul.

I accept the press did indicate the women were taking these men to their own unforeseen doom, but did they really suggest it was a client they knew well? I think not.

[etenguy]

I do not believe it,everyday there must have been streetwalkers..Stride,Eddowes.Cox and Kelly did not "care" there was a killer roaming about.It's overwhelming the killer was a visitor to the district,comes at the end of the month until or and at about the end of first week 8-9,leaves the district and comes back again at the end of the month.
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I am not sure it is fair to say the victims did not care there was a murderer about - though the use of quotes maybe suggests you think they were forced onto the streets regardless. My own theory is that the murderer was a regular user of prostitutes or someone well known in the area. Someone who the women trusted, or at least did not fear.

[Abby Normal]

...or perhaps a likelier answer is that the murder overlapped with the route of a random carman. Sorry, two random carmen.



Is pettifogging the usual practice for Lechmere apologia?



I'm willing to bet any number of those fellas had troubled upbringings, absent parents, diagnosed/undiagnosed mental problems, etc. We know this already from the small pool of suspects/witnesses etc. available to us.

pettifogging LOL great word. now stop being such a nocfollius tumbletwat.

[Varqm]

This "route to work" and "lives in the district "argument is/are not really good.If Lechmere walked to work 5 days a week or more through the district,that's about 20 days a month and he found victims only at the end of the month and 8-9 - August 31,September 8,September 30,November 8-9 (8 if Blotchy,which to me was).The odds are about 30-2 or about 20-2 (minus weekends).I do not believe it,everyday there must have been streetwalkers..Stride,Eddowes.Cox and Kelly did not "care" there was a killer roaming about.It's overwhelming the killer was a visitor to the district,comes at the end of the month until or and at about the end of first week 8-9,leaves the district and comes back again at the end of the month.It left most undercover cops/most patrols/dossers/rumors/house-to-house search negligible.Tabram at 7 of August could have been a victim.

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