So if you live in Bethnal Green, you wonīt kill in Whitechapel?

[MrBarnett]

See, that's where it starts to fall apart. Apart from Nichols, we can only say that of the Chapman murder - and then only if we (a) accept an earlier TOD that is by no means proven; and (b) we assume that Cross was actually en route to work via Hanbury Street at that time. Nichols aside, this is the only other occasion where Cross's work-route might have coincided with the scene and time of a murder, but even here we're on very shaky ground.

Incidentally, the same "logic" would apply to Robert Paul in respect of the Nichols/Chapman murders, not that it means much at all.

The truth is we don't know what Lechmere's normal work route was. Nor do we know his shift patterns or on which days of the week he worked.

Yes, he marched in step with Paul via Hanbury Street on the morning of Nichols' murder, but that was clearly a rather exceptional occasion.

[Batman]

Alfred Crow is geographically linked to the Pinchin Street torso murder AND the Tabram murder!

Hi Eten
what Gary just said one post up.


re geographics:
1 He was seen near a recently murdered victim (before trying to raise the alarm) in Bucks Row
2 His work route took him near the other murder sites at approx. TOD.
3 His mother lived (and he did earlier) near Berner street-which might explain earlier TODs of double event victims.
4 Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq/Pickfords


add to that the discrepency with the name, and what was said to PC Mizen and I think we have a possible strong suspect (or as I prefer-least weak suspects).

Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.

[MrBarnett]

Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.

1. Why would he choose to make his first kill on his own doorstep, where the possibility of his being identified was greatest?

2. Is deliberately misleading. Licenced cab drivers don't necessarily work in the area in which they live. You know that, right?

3. His known connections to STGITE were almost two decades previously.

4. Ditto Lechmere.

5. ��

6/7. Yes, he was making the point that despite his keen eyesight, the landing was so dark he couldn't even tell whether the vague human form he made out was male or female.

[Abby Normal]

Notice Crow both is living near a murder victim and has been near a murder victim at the time of her death. He beats Lechmere there because Lechmere doesn't live near any murder victim.

Crow
1. He was living on one of the floors above where Martha Tabram was stabbed to death in the stairwell.
2. His work as a cab driver indicates traversing Whitechapel, which would include murder sites.
3. He has connections to Berner St/Pinchin St.
4. Goulston street is on a route back home from Mitre sq.
5. He lives in the hot zone.
6. He walked past a murder victim at the time of her death to get to his accommodation.
7. When questioned he said that he had great vision as a cab driver but the spot was too dark to make out the person lying there.

JtR needed great vision.

Hi batman
What does the rossmo model say about someone killing on there front step? Dosnt it say that where they live is the comfort zone amd they dont kill in that area?

[MrBarnett]

Hi batman
What does the rossmo model say about someone killing on there front step? Dosnt it say that where they live is the comfort zone amd they dont kill in that area?

And is their 'comfort' fully-formed on day one of their residence?

[MrBarnett]

Talking of geography, the road from Whitfield lodge to Tiger Bay must have had a significant influence on Charles Allen Lechmere's character:

https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread...Bolton&page=11

Crow's upbringing seems to have been more stable than CAL's.

No absent father; no living in his adolescence in the midst of the East End's premier red light district with a mother bigamously married to a policeman many years her junior. A mother whom he may well have relied upon financially and with whom he lived cheek-by-jowl until in early 1888 he moved to a smaller home in Mile End Old Town, leaving his eldest daughter behind with his her.

[harry]

How does one wish to discus Cross?As a suspect or as a killer,for he has been described as both.To my way of reasoning he is neither,not one piece of incrimnating evidence can be levelled against him.Evidence has him finding a body,no evidence has been forthcoming that he (Cross) inflicted the injuries to that body.All we are faced with is the unsupported claim that he lied,but nothing in the way of evidence to prove that claim.An examination of his life may show many things.Now the notion is that geographiclly he is somehow more probable to have cut Nichol's throat,and the throats of others,than a person less geographically situated.How strange to see evidence so corrupted.How wonderful if Aberline for instance,had known of profilling,instead of the old description of Įharacteristics of the offence.

[MrBarnett]

Why do some people find it so hard to use the word Lechmere?

Why discuss him? Well, he is connected to the case, and he has a very interesting background, so why not? How to discuss him? As Charles allen Lechmere, an atypical Eastender who either was, or came physically close to, the Ripper.

[Batman]

1. Why would he choose to make his first kill on his own doorstep, where the possibility of his being identified was greatest?

2. Is deliberately misleading. Licenced cab drivers don't necessarily work in the area in which they live. You know that, right?

3. His known connections to STGITE were almost two decades previously.

4. Ditto Lechmere.

5. ��

6/7. Yes, he was making the point that despite his keen eyesight, the landing was so dark he couldn't even tell whether the vague human form he made out was male or female.

You can clearly see here that your answers/replies are suspect driven. Simply giving Crow the benefit of the doubt, but not Cross.

For example, with 1, we could ask why Cross was killing haphazardly on his route to work? 2, is trying to get Crow out of Whitechapel altogether because him operating a cab in Whitechapel takes him also past the murder scenes. 3, are obviously still connections. 5, is that Crow meets the conditions for Rossmo. He lives in the hot zone. 6,7, your answer here gives Crow the benefit of the doubt over his story, but just doubts Cross' story.

[Batman]

Hi batman
What does the rossmo model say about someone killing on there front step? Dosnt it say that where they live is the comfort zone amd they dont kill in that area?

The addition of Tabram shifts the hot zone a little more over western Flower & Dean.

What Rossmo tells us is that the hot zone should be looked at. Simple as that.

What is striking about this hot zone is that it is near two important murders. Smith and Tabram. Hot zones usually do not reveal murder sites.

Yet here it has.

What I take home from this is that Tabram was JtR's 'first' (used loosely) murder, near an anchor point, and that he is subsequently attacking radial around this anchor point.

[Abby Normal]

The addition of Tabram shifts the hot zone a little more over western Flower & Dean.

What Rossmo tells us is that the hot zone should be looked at. Simple as that.

What is striking about this hot zone is that it is near two important murders. Smith and Tabram. Hot zones usually do not reveal murder sites.

Yet here it has.

What I take home from this is that Tabram was JtR's 'first' (used loosely) murder, near an anchor point, and that he is subsequently attacking radial around this anchor point.

You know i was thinking it would be very odd, and rare, if crow as the killer, would murder on his front door step. But many serial killers start with a trigger kill so perhaps if he was the killer it was unplanned and therefore explains the anomalie of killing too close to home.

[Abby Normal]

Why do some people find it so hard to use the word Lechmere?

Why discuss him? Well, he is connected to the case, and he has a very interesting background, so why not? How to discuss him? As Charles allen Lechmere, an atypical Eastender who either was, or came physically close to, the Ripper.

Agree.

And i call him lech, just because i like the way it sounds, and because its an abrev. Of the name he apparently commonly used.

And im lazy.

[Fisherman]

...with all the research carried out, no evidence has been discovered, just potential opportunity.

And more so than for any other of the suspects. Who, incidentally, suffer a worse lack of evidence than Lechmere does.
All in all, as suspects go, that isnīt half bad.

[Fisherman]

I think Ed Stow has claimed that Alfred Crow lived with his family in Ellen Court in 1881? He was approximately 13 at the time (Crow, that is).

So in his formative teenage years Alfred Crow lived a stone's throw from Pinchin Street.

No wonder he later returned and deposited a torso there.

Alfred Crow is geographically linked to the Pinchin Street torso murder AND the Tabram murder!

Yes, he is almost neck and neck with Lechmere now! All he needs is to be proven to have been found alone with a freshly killed murder victim, to throw that stone, taking him from close to Pinchin Street INTO the street, to get a job that takes him walking through the Spitalfields killing zone at around 3-4 AM every working day morning, to hide his real name from police and inquest and to disagree with them over what was said between him and a PC on one of the murder nights, and he will be level with the carman!

[Monty]

Why do some people find it so hard to use the word Lechmere?

Why discuss him? Well, he is connected to the case, and he has a very interesting background, so why not? How to discuss him? As Charles allen Lechmere, an atypical Eastender who either was, or came physically close to, the Ripper.

He gave his name as Cross. He did. Himself.

Monty