Lech versus Kos

[Fisherman]

This is a thread where I mainly have in mind poster Elamarna, for the reason that he has professed to favouring Aaron Kosminski as a suspect. It will, however, have it´s application on anybody who has a suspect they root for, no matter who that suspect is. I am just exemplifying with good old Aaron here for simplicity´s sake.

What I am asking myself, regarding Charles Lechmere as the only good suspect and the probable Ripper, is something that is connected to a funny thing I came to think of years ago, and posted back then.

I found it hilarious that each suspectologist who did not support Lechmere, would have a picture of their own favourite suspect rounding the schoolhouse corner, knife in hand, as Lechmere stepped into Bucks Row.

Colin would envisage Albert Cadosch scuttling around the corner, John Wheat would see Bury doing the same tour, Tracy I´anson would suggest that it was Levy who ran around the corner, Trevor Marriott would have Feigenbaum speeding away while others would have other suspects legging it around the corner, all of them scared off by Lechmere and, of course, all of them being the Ripper simultaneously: "Hey, get out of my way, I need to get the hell out of here!"

And Steve (Elamarna), would be one of the many who believes that Aaron Kosminski was the man doing the runner up at the schoolhouse corner.

Okay, fair enough. Let´s assume that it WAS Aaron running away that dark August morning, without Lechmere hearing or seeing a iot.

My question is: Why did Aaron Kosminski put so much effort into framing Charles Lechmere for the murder afterwards? And perhaps even before!

He made sure that Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly all were slain in the area inbetween Hanbury Street and Old Montage Street - the EXACT patch of land that would have represented Lechmere´s work trek. And keep in mind that these two routes were of equal distance and time consumption, roughly speaking, so that Lechmere would be one of the few who could be suggested to use BOTH tracks on his way to Broad Street and the Pickfords depot.

And not only that, Kosminski then had the audacity to kill Stride a stone´s throw away from where Lechmere´s mother lived. Whereafter that delusional killer pinned Eddowes on Lechmere too, by seemingly using Lechmere´s old work trek up to the Mitre Square area!

And then he implicated in which direction to find the framed Lechmere by dropping the rag in Goulston Street, on the direct route from Mitre Square to Doveton Street!

And before he left the Bucks Row murder site, he pulled the clothing down over the body of Nichols, so that if Lechmere called for help, he would find himself in a situation where it could be reasoned that HE was the killer, and that HE had done the pulling down of the clothes!

Is it just a series of coincidences that Kosminski did all of this? Or did the scoundrel decide that Lechmere needed to be pointed to as a very likely culprit?

I am ashamed to say that I swallowed his scheme, hook, line and sinker.

Over to you, Steve - or anybody with a suspect that does not go by the name of Charles Lechmere. Perhaps it wasn´t Kosminski who framed him, maybe it was Druitt? Or van Gogh? Or Carl Feigenbaum?

I´ll be off for some time now, so you will all have time to chew on the question. Who framed Lechmere?

[Sam Flynn]

He made sure that Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly all were slain in the area inbetween Hanbury Street and Old Montage Street - the EXACT patch of land that would have represented Lechmere´s work trek.

What a load of pony.

[Elamarna]

This is a thread where I mainly have in mind poster Elamarna, for the reason that he has professed to favouring Aaron Kosminski as a suspect. It will, however, have it´s application on anybody who has a suspect they root for, no matter who that suspect is. I am just exemplifying with good old Aaron here for simplicity´s sake.

What I am asking myself, regarding Charles Lechmere as the only good suspect and the probable Ripper, is something that is connected to a funny thing I came to think of years ago, and posted back then.

I found it hilarious that each suspectologist who did not support Lechmere, would have a picture of their own favourite suspect rounding the schoolhouse corner, knife in hand, as Lechmere stepped into Bucks Row.

Colin would envisage Albert Cadosch scuttling around the corner, John Wheat would see Bury doing the same tour, Tracy I´anson would suggest that it was Levy who ran around the corner, Trevor Marriott would have Feigenbaum speeding away while others would have other suspects legging it around the corner, all of them scared off by Lechmere and, of course, all of them being the Ripper simultaneously: "Hey, get out of my way, I need to get the hell out of here!"

And Steve (Elamarna), would be one of the many who believes that Aaron Kosminski was the man doing the runner up at the schoolhouse corner.

Okay, fair enough. Let´s assume that it WAS Aaron running away that dark August morning, without Lechmere hearing or seeing a iot.

My question is: Why did Aaron Kosminski put so much effort into framing Charles Lechmere for the murder afterwards? And perhaps even before!

He made sure that Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly all were slain in the area inbetween Hanbury Street and Old Montage Street - the EXACT patch of land that would have represented Lechmere´s work trek. And keep in mind that these two routes were of equal distance and time consumption, roughly speaking, so that Lechmere would be one of the few who could be suggested to use BOTH tracks on his way to Broad Street and the Pickfords depot.

And not only that, Kosminski then had the audacity to kill Stride a stone´s throw away from where Lechmere´s mother lived. Whereafter that delusional killer pinned Eddowes on Lechmere too, by seemingly using Lechmere´s old work trek up to the Mitre Square area!

And then he implicated in which direction to find the framed Lechmere by dropping the rag in Goulston Street, on the direct route from Mitre Square to Doveton Street!

And before he left the Bucks Row murder site, he pulled the clothing down over the body of Nichols, so that if Lechmere called for help, he would find himself in a situation where it could be reasoned that HE was the killer, and that HE had done the pulling down of the clothes!

Is it just a series of coincidences that Kosminski did all of this? Or did the scoundrel decide that Lechmere needed to be pointed to as a very likely culprit?

I am ashamed to say that I swallowed his scheme, hook, line and sinker.

Over to you, Steve - or anybody with a suspect that does not go by the name of Charles Lechmere. Perhaps it wasn´t Kosminski who framed him, maybe it was Druitt? Or van Gogh? Or Carl Feigenbaum?

Start with the easy one Christer, if it were Aaron, killing Stride at Berner street, is nothing to do with fitting up poor old Charlie, its simply close to where he in all probability lived.
While we don't know his exact address during the Autumn of 1888, it appears he lived mostly with his famly, and they surround Berner Street, being in Greenfield and Yarford streets to the North, Providence to the South. oh and 38 Berner street a few years earlier.

A little closer tham mother Lechmere.
of course with Charlie having only just moved from the same general area, there must be a chance they knew each other by sight. maybe they talked and swapped stories.

The others I will get back to you probably tomorrow, obviously I am still writing references, so am trying to split mytime between that and posting here.


Steve

[Batman]

How does Eddowes bloody apron piece figure into this?

[MrBarnett]

How does Eddowes bloody apron piece figure into this?

Lech was on his way back to Doveton Street and went via Goulston Street?

I have my own take on that, which I've mention before, seemingly to deaf ears.

If you've just killed in Mitre Square and wish to escape the City police jurisdiction ASAP, you head for Haydon Square, the closest point of exit from the City, and formerly the site of a Pickfords depot. From there if you head north to cross WC High Street you hit Goulston Street.

Of course, that route doesn't have the same cosy relationship to the 'hot zone' as a simple straight line.

[Batman]

Lech was on his way back to Doveton Street and went via Goulston Street?

I have my own take on that, which I've mention before, seemingly to deaf ears.

If you've just killed in Mitre Square and wish to escape the City police jurisdiction ASAP, you head for Haydon Square, the closest point of exit from the City, and formerly the site of a Pickfords depot. From there if you head north to cross WC High Street you hit Goulston Street.

Of course, that route doesn't have the same cosy relationship to the 'hot zone' as a simple straight line.

You would run into no less than three undercover policemen on Aldgate High Street and one of them in charge of allocating beats that night. Same place where Eddowes had been picked up drunk earlier in the day.

[Herlock Sholmes]

. He made sure that Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly all were slain in the area inbetween Hanbury Street and Old Montage Street - the EXACT patch of land that would have represented Lechmere´s work trek. And keep in mind that these two routes were of equal distance and time consumption, roughly speaking, so that Lechmere would be one of the few who could be suggested to use BOTH tracks on his way to Broad Street and the Pickfords depot.

Looks like Lechmere did a good job of framing himself by committing murders along his route to work!

And not only that, Kosminski then had the audacity to kill Stride a stone´s throw away from where Lechmere´s mother lived. Whereafter that delusional killer pinned Eddowes on Lechmere too, by seemingly using Lechmere´s old work trek up to the Mitre Square area!

Here we go again. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

And then he implicated in which direction to find the framed Lechmere by dropping the rag in Goulston Street, on the direct route from Mitre Square to Doveton Street!

And thousands of other locations of course.

And before he left the Bucks Row murder site, he pulled the clothing down over the body of Nichols, so that if Lechmere called for help, he would find himself in a situation where it could be reasoned that HE was the killer, and that HE had done the pulling down of the clothes!

Or that the killer just pulled down the clothing for reasons known only to himself.

Is it just a series of coincidences that Kosminski did all of this? Or did the scoundrel decide that Lechmere needed to be pointed to as a very likely culprit?

They’re not coincidences. They are constructions....by you.

More effort has been put into shoehorning Lechmere into the Ripper’s footwear than any other suspect. He was there. He found the body. That’s all there is.

[Busy Beaver]

Nobody framed Lechmere. He was innocently walking to work at 0.340am down Bucks Row, when Lech saw, what he thought was a tarpaulin. On closer inspection it was a woman's body. Lech looked at it for a couple of minutes, looked up and saw Robert Paul walking through Bucks Row. Lech called Robert Paul over and asked Robert to have a look (which he did) and they thought that the woman was dead and then they made the conscious decision to continue their walk to work (or they were going to be late) and that they would tell a Policeman (any one will do) what they had found in Bucks Row. As the two men (Lech & Paul) had only just left Bucks Row, PC John Neil enters Bucks Row and finds Polly's body. Lech & Paul come across PC Mizen on their travels and they tell him of the woman's body in Bucks Row. All perfectly innocent of two men finding a dead women's body and agreeing to do the right thing by reporting it- which they did.

Now you can finish the story.....

[MrBarnett]

Duplicate post - sorry!

[MrBarnett]

You would run into no less than three undercover policemen on Aldgate High Street and one of them in charge of allocating beats that night. Same place where Eddowes had been picked up drunk earlier in the day.

Er, yes, if you headed for Haydon Square to exit the City and then went immediately back into the City (Aldgate). But why would anyone do that?

If you kept slightly to the east, you could cross Whitechapel High Street, with ne'er a City Bobby in sight.

[Batman]

Er, yes, if you headed for Haydon Square to exit the City and then went immediately back into the City (Aldgate). But why would anyone do that?

If you kept slightly to the east, you could cross Whitechapel High Street, with ne'er a City Bobby in sight.

If he exits Mitre Square, he has to cross Aldgate high street to get to Haydon square.

[MrBarnett]

If he exits Mitre Square, he has to cross Aldgate high street to get to Haydon square.

You're right of course.

[Busy Beaver]

Aaron Kosminski/Kozminski. If a very good photo of Aaron was presented to Casebook, then it can be gauged against the various descriptions that are abound of the Ripper. What puts me off this suspect is the fact he did suffer from mental health issues, but to exactly what extent does not seem to be really known. If he was as Ill in 1888 as he was in 1891, I don't think his mind would have been focused enough to kill and get away with it. I believe he would have been caught probably at the first hurdle and it would have been an extremely terrified Lech who would have saw Kozminski standing over staring a Polly's body, knife in hand and if Koz caught sight of Lech, probably would have chased Lech out of Bucks Row, hopefully to the safety of PC Neil. It would have been some commotion in Bucks Row that morning and anyone who said they never heard a thing was or saw anything was probably drunk, drugged or lying. If Polly had suspected Koz to be a little more strange than a normal punter, she might have even screamed before he even got near her.
I'm on the fence with Koz at present.

[Batman]

What puts me off this suspect is the fact he did suffer from mental health issues, but to exactly what extent does not seem to be really known. If he was as Ill in 1888 as he was in 1891, I don't think his mind would have been focused enough to kill and get away with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Napper

Paranoid Schizophrenic with Asperger's Syndrome.

He was quite ill and yet a vicious murderer and rapist. He may have attacked more than 70 people. He murdered three. He also mutilated. He doesn't look remotely like he could be such a prolific offender.

He was remanded to Broadmoor hospital indefinitely.

[Elamarna]

Aaron Kosminski/Kozminski. If a very good photo of Aaron was presented to Casebook, then it can be gauged against the various descriptions that are abound of the Ripper.

Forget very good, any photo would do, we simply do not have any pictorial representation of the man.

What puts me off this suspect is the fact he did suffer from mental health issues, but to exactly what extent does not seem to be really known. If he was as Ill in 1888 as he was in 1891, I don't think his mind would have been focused enough to kill and get away with it.

All we know is that he appeared in Court in 1889, on the unmuzzled dog charge, he did not appear to be ill at that point, certainly no where near his reported condition in 1891

I believe he would have been caught probably at the first hurdle and it would have been an extremely terrified Lech who would have saw Kozminski standing over staring a Polly's body, knife in hand and if Koz caught sight of Lech, probably would have chased Lech out of Bucks Row, hopefully to the safety of PC Neil. It would have been some commotion in Bucks Row that morning and anyone who said they never heard a thing was or saw anything was probably drunk, drugged or lying. If Polly had suspected Koz to be a little more strange than a normal punter, she might have even screamed before he even got near her.
I'm on the fence with Koz at present.

There is every possibility that in 1888, he for the main appeared and acted normal, he may even have used prostitutes on a regular basis. He may not have appeared strange at all.


Steve