It was Lechmere.

[Elamarna]

Thank you for this post, it had told me exactly who you are.

I am not responding to you anymore.


Rainbow°

Rainbow.

What is untrue in that post. You do not answer questions asked of you, points are ignored over and over. Not argued against but ignored and what is posted has not been accurate in quite a few cases I do not understand how you think that is unimportant. Phrases are repeated over and over again, with little or no support.

Take for instance the "not a soul about" phrase.

No one sees Nichols enter, nor Lechmere or Paul.

The street is only checked by police for 10 minutes out of every hour.
The East and West ends are both passed by two police officers every half hour but the time spent doing this will be minimal.

That suggests that for the majority of every hour people could come and go without being seen.
And yet despite you being asked to comment on such you ignore it, so of course its harder to debate with someone who will engage in debate than someone who will not.
There are no arguments made, just repeating a phrase taken from the paper which gives just a 5 minute snapshot each half hour.

The same is true of the breathing issue. You quote a source and stick to it, there no issue there; however ignoring the fact that many of the sources which say there may have been a slight breathing, ALSO say that Paul told Lechmere he believed she was dead is an issue if you do not address that too.

Picking the bits which help an argument;whilst ignoring those that do not (cherry picking)
is not recommended if one wants to get unbias reports.

Countering such arguments is easy. And I shall continue to do so if you respond of not.


Steve

[John Wheat]

Hi John.

Yes there's a lot to come over the coming months I think. I have to say after the intense debates with Fish earlier in the week, this current round of exchanges is relatively easy.

The arguments being posted in favour of Lechmere are either pure opinion with little supporting data or even better statements that are untrue such as the post saying Mizen arrived before Thain and the two men seen by Thain as he walked towards Bucks Row junction with Brady street were most likely Paul and Lechmere.


Steve

Hi Steve

I've yet to see anything about Lechmere supporting him as a suspect that isn't pure opinion or untrue.

Cheers John

[Rainbow]

Hi John.

Yes there's a lot to come over the coming months I think. I have to say after the intense debates with Fish earlier in the week, this current round of exchanges is relatively easy.

The arguments being posted in favour of Lechmere are either pure opinion with little supporting data or even better statements that are untrue such as the post saying Mizen arrived before Thain and the two men seen by Thain as he walked towards Bucks Row junction with Brady street were most likely Paul and Lechmere.


Steve

Thank you for this post, it had told me exactly who you are.

I am not responding to you anymore.


Rainbow°

[Elamarna]

I think that's a massive understatement Steve

Hi John.

Yes there's a lot to come over the coming months I think. I have to say after the intense debates with Fish earlier in the week, this current round of exchanges is relatively easy.

The arguments being posted in favour of Lechmere are either pure opinion with little supporting data or even better statements that are untrue such as the post saying Mizen arrived before Thain and the two men seen by Thain as he walked towards Bucks Row junction with Brady street were most likely Paul and Lechmere.


Steve

[John Wheat]

Lechmere is in no trouble, the case against him is poor and many parts of it, will in time be shown to be fundamentally flawed.

Steve

I think that's a massive understatement Steve

[Elamarna]

4 Minutes here and 2.5 Minutes there..

without even adding the time till the phantom kilker disappear from the scene without being heared or noticed from Lechmere

6.5 Minutes and she still had breathing movements in her chest ?!

and more ... she continued bleeding till Neil came ?!

What a hell of situation Lechmere and those who are defending him are in now...


No further questions your honour!


Rainbow°

Let's just be clear :

1. The time from the throat cut to Paul touching her could be as little as 2.5 to 3 minutes. I work with ranges not pricise figures, because such are not possible. Your use of 6.5 minutes is at the high end of the range I suggest. To then quote just that is intentionally misleading


2. Paul was NOT certain he detected breathing, he told Lechmere he believed she was dead. He was not sure, that is clear from the testimony.

3. The time taken for another killer to go is no more than maybe 30 seconds to a minute.
Paul apparently did not notice Lechmere until close. Lechmere claimed not to notice him until he heard him about 40 yards away. If it would be no problem for Lechmere to leave the body, if he were the killer, without Paul noticing why should it be any different for another killer to do the same and just walk West down Bucks Row keeping tight to the Board School? And the time for the killer to leave is included in the times given, it does not need to be added on.

4. Bleeding again. No problem. Neil did not see blood under pressure he saw blood oozing from her wounds. Her heart had probably stopped several minutes before he arrived.
He found her probably a minimum nearly 7 minutes after the attack possibly later.

Lechmere is in no trouble, the case against him is poor and many parts of it, will in time be shown to be fundamentally flawed.

Steve

[Rainbow]

4 Minutes here and 2.5 Minutes there..

6.5 Minutes !!!? Without even adding the time till the phantom kilker disappeared from the scene without being heared or noticed by Lechmere, 6.5 Minutes !!! and she still had breathing movements in her chest ?!

and more ... she continued bleeding till Neil came ?!

What a hell of situation Lechmere and those who are defending him are in now...


No further questions your honour!


Rainbow°

[Elamarna]

Ok, 2.5 Minutes , and how long do you give the killer time between cuting her throat and the arrival of Lechmere ?!

Rainbow°

I have already said several times.

Less than 5. More than 1. Actual attack between 2 and 4 minutes from beginning to end.




Steve

[Rainbow]

I see. Well, good luck with it.

Pierre

Thank you.


Rainbow°

[Pierre]

That was because of the 'From Hell' letter,

If it was authentic, which I am still researching this, that explains the missing heart from Kelly..

I studied some of Lechmere's hand writings, I saw some similarities, but that is only in my ongoing research..

Rainbow°

I see. Well, good luck with it.

Pierre

[Rainbow]

From the time Lechmere sees the body it is probably no more than 2 minutes maybe 2.5 minutes before they depart to find Mizen.

Steve

Ok, 2.5 Minutes , and how long do you give the killer time between cuting her throat and the arrival of Lechmere ?!

Rainbow°

[Elamarna]

5 Minutes till Lechmere came, then again till Paul came, then till they examined the woman, and still there was breathing movements in her chest ?!

hahahahahahaha


Rainbow°

No read what is written Rainbow, within 5 minutes, that means 5 minutes of less. Paul is not 5 minutes behind Lechmere he is probably less than a minute behind him.

From the time Lechmere sees the body it is probably no more than 2 minutes maybe 2.5 minutes before they depart to find Mizen.

Steve

[Mike J. G.]

5 Minutes till Lechmere came, then again till Paul came, then till they examined the woman, and still there was breathing movements in her chest ?!

hahahahahahaha


Rainbow°

You seem to enjoy pinning a lot on these questionable "breathing movements," and you've been told that in some accounts, Paul mentions that she was probably already dead.

Considering the fact that the TOD and Lech's own timings are debatable, anyone trying to claim that there wasn't enough time for Nichols to have been killed prior to Lech arriving, well they have a lot of evidence that they need to find to support their case.

[Rainbow]

5 Minutes till Lechmere came, then again till Paul came, then till they examined the woman, and still there was breathing movements in her chest ?!

hahahahahahaha


Rainbow°

[Elamarna]

You answer this

How long do expect to detect breathing movements in chest after the head was almost severed from the body?!

I am sure if I said this cup of tea is sweet, you are going to ask for a medical proof for it... it is just talking for the hell of talking ...

Rainbow°

So again you don't have any evidence to base your idea on just what you think it might be.

There is a big difference between full decapitation and the wounds inflicted on Nichols.
Mainly the spinal column was still intact.

Of course you believe that the abdomen wounds were first? Do you also believe that these were the killer cuts as Fisherman suspects? If so that makes a difference to her breathing.
In the Nichols case If the trachaea was exposed by the cuts and did not collapsed on itself air can continue to enter and exit the lungs. Very much like an emergency tracheostomy. Of course the degree of bleeding will cause problems but to suggest breathing must stop very quickly is not nesicarilly the case.

It is my suggestion that the killer left the scene within 5 minutes of Lechmere's arrival probably less.
There were many escape routes to the North and South if he headed West down Bucks Row.

It's not talking for the sake of it at all. If people are going to present a case against a suspect it must be more than Sound bites and incorrect facts. If not they will be constantly challenged.
The solution is to make sure the facts quoted are correct and the arguments are stronger than " I am convinced ".

With so little data much of the debate is over how we intperet something.
It helps if we are using real data when we do this, it really does.

Steve