Lechmere The Psychopath

[Rainbow]

Nice post .

I was also thinking this had been going so much better.

Been checking both online and with old textbooks to see if I can make sense of this.
It looks as if the info Fish posted about electrical activity stopping in 20-30 seconds is correct . It is published in several places.

Logically if there is no signal telling the lungs to breath in breathing should stop around that period. And that would probably mean Paul could not have felt breath movements.

However this is medicine not logic and we need an expert to help is.

Hopefully next time Kjab3112 logs on he will help us on this.

Steve

And that means only one thing, if Paul did detect breathing, then Lechmere was conclusively and exclusively the cutter.

[Henry Flower]

Further to this, I would like to point to how it would be reasonable to interpret any movement at the chest as part of the respiration. The chest heaves when breathing, and so it is logical to think that any movement in it has to do with breathing.
Furthermore, when Paul felt her chest, he would not anticipate the kind of twitch that is tied to having been recently murdered by the infliction of sharp violence - he would presumably have thought that the woman was either drunk or dead on behalf of some natural cause. So he would not have expected whatever he felt at the chest to be anything but breathing, methinks.
A stirring movement, a sort of soft twitch or something like that would very probably go down as breathing in Pauls mind, if I am making a correct assessment of the situation.

Once more, we will never be able to decide WHAT Paul felt, but it is important to note that he seemingly felt SOMETHING, and that does not bode well for Lechmere in my book. Maybe a medico will allow for a significant time of twitching, thus keeping the door ajar for the "phantom killer" - most medicos are reluctant to rule anything at all out.

Weīll see.

Can't disagree with much of that, Christer. Very true: movements of the chest are hardwired into our minds as being respiratory. Because we're not usually dying. Thankfully.

[Henry Flower]

And that means only one thing, if Paul did detect breathing, then Lechmere was conclusively and exclusively the cutter.

Steve - cancel that request for expert analysis. Not needed. Case closed. Nothing more to see here folks, let's all go home now.

[Elamarna]

As I said, 'while' is a general word, those two activates cannot happen together at the exact same time.

'before' is the specific word.

Sorry please explain how WHILE is a general word

About or around would be general.

Are you not just saying the you choose BEFORE .

I never cease to be amazed at some of the comments made.


Steve

[Rainbow]

Because, and I said it 1000 times, he cannot put his hands on her chest 'while' pulling her clothes with his hands..

is there a possibility that he pull down her clothes using his feet ?! or maybe his mouth ?!

One has to be done 'before' the other, and for 'coincidence' we have the report who tell us exactly, which one had happened first!

[Elamarna]

And that means only one thing, if Paul did detect breathing, then Lechmere was conclusively and exclusively the cutter.

Not at all.

It depends on how long breathing could continue for.

There are some figures that would strongly point towards Lechmere of course but I doubt if anything is specific enough to conclusive.

We would need to know:

How long before Paul sees Lechmere the throat is cut.
How long it took for Paul to reach Lechmere.
How long the examination and exchange took.


Now while we can make educated guesses at this, they are just that.

We would need a very specific timing for the cessation of breathing to allow us to be conclusive.


Time will tell.


Steve

[Rainbow]

Not at all in return.

If Paul detected breathing, that means only one thing, Lechmere was the killer.

Breathing will stop very very soon, that a chance for a phantom killer will be 0%

[Elamarna]

Because, and I said it a 1000 times, he cannot put his hands on her chest 'while' pulling her clothes with his hands..

is there a possibility that he pull down her clothes using his feet ?! or maybe his mouth ?!

One has to be done 'before' the other, and for 'coincidence' we have the report who tell us exactly, which one had happened first!

Sorry that won't do and is far from convincing.

Firstly you argue it's because BEFORE is specific and WHILE is general.

Now' it for a different reason, that you do not thing it is possible to use both hands for different purposes.

Why does he need to use both hands to touch her chest. How many of the reports say he used both hands?

Why do you assume he needs both hands to adjust her dress.

It's clear from Lechmere's testimony that there was a problem adjusting the dress. In which case using the second hand to secure the upper body is perfectly resonable.

This switching of reasoning all the time is not helpful; just as it was not when you first argued that breathing would stop in 2 minutes because the windpipe was cut, no mention of lack of blood flow to the brain being the reason.
However once it was shown that cutting of said windpipe would not stop breathing on its own we lost that argument and got the far more plausible brain death solution.

The scattergun approach taken is really not conducive to clear analysis and focused debate.


Steve

[Elamarna]

Not at all in return.

If Paul detected breathing, that means only one thing, Lechmere was the killer.

Breathing will stop very very soon, that a chance for a phantom killer will be 0%

Without the figures you cannot say that. To suggest you can is not to use your own term logical

The figures could prove that Paul could not have detected breathing, what do you say then?

Steve

[Rainbow]

I didn't say breathing will stop in 2 minutes because of the windpipe cut, thats what you understood, only you, Fisherman has understood that directly.

It is crystal clear, we are talking about Nichols, but maybe you thought we were talking about Tabram maybe ?!

we see people everyday with a tracheastomy for different reasons, haven't you seen one before ?!

second, the word 'while' in the report had been used when reporting two acts, detecting breathing, and pulling clothes, those two acts cannot happen at the same exact time, so don't push other things here

[Elamarna]

Not at all in return.

If Paul detected breathing, that means only one thing, Lechmere was the killer.

Breathing will stop very very soon, that a chance for a phantom killer will be 0%

Back to the Phantom killer phrase again I see.

No time you say.

Please explain why the following scenario fails

Killer is by body, hears Lechmere enter street. Leaves some 40- 30 seconds ahead of Lechmere West.

And please not just there is no time. Actually explain why you think that is.

I am not asking how probably you think it is; but why you consider it impossible.

Steve

[Rainbow]

Arguing with you is pointless.

I said it before and I will continue saying it, breathing evidence is conclusive in my mind that Lechmere was the ripper.

I have brought that up ! and I am so happy to do that !

Steve, you will find others to argue with don't worry.

[Fisherman]

Back to the Phantom killer phrase again I see.

No time you say.

Please explain why the following scenario fails

Killer is by body, hears Lechmere enter street. Leaves some 40- 30 seconds ahead of Lechmere West.

And please not just there is no time. Actually explain why you think that is.

I am not asking how probably you think it is; but why you consider it impossible.

Steve

It would have taken Lechmere around a minute or so to reach Browns from the junction Braady Street/Bucks Row. And he said that if there had been somebody up at Browns, he would have noted it. I tend to think that if we have a phantom killer (I actually like that name a lot... ), then he would have left as Lechmere turned into Bucks Row, meaning that I would want him to have left the body at least a minut ahead of Lechmere.

Thatīs my take, of course, and other may disagree.

[Elamarna]

I didn't say breathing will stop in 2 minutes because of the windpipe cut, thats what you understood, only you, Fisherman has understood that directly.


You posted:



"Since the Endotracheal of the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement because of the altered pressure in her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes before!"

No mention of the severing of blood vessels, Endotrachael pure and simple.

One cannot misunderstand if the information is not included.



It is crystal clear, we are talking about Nichols, but maybe you thought we were talking about Tabram maybe ?!

Why would you think that?




we see people everyday with a tracheastomy for different reasons, haven't you seen one before ?!

Please that is the argument I made to you, which you refused to reply to.
I pointed that out several times, if you really meant the blood vessels there was ample opportunity to mention it.
This approach is highly disingenuous, i think anyone can see that; sad and shameful.



second, the word 'while' in the report had been used when reporting two acts, detecting breathing, and pulling clothes, those two acts cannot happen at the same exact time, so don't push other things here

Of course they can. It called multitasking, and it possible that movement was detect as the result of placing the hand to support moving the dress rather than a distinct action to attempt to detect breathing.


Steve

[Elamarna]

It would have taken Lechmere around a minute or so to reach Browns from the junction Braady Street/Bucks Row. And he said that if there had been somebody up at Browns, he would have noted it. I tend to think that if we have a phantom killer (I actually like that name a lot... ), then he would have left as Lechmere turned into Bucks Row, meaning that I would want him to have left the body at least a minut ahead of Lechmere.

Thatīs my take, of course, and other may disagree.

Yes I agree on the time around a minute.

Given that Paul did not noticed Lechmere until he was fairly close, I know he did not give a figure but he certainly did not see Lechmere move, and Lechmere claimed to hear him at about 40 yards (about 25 seconds). why should we think it would be any different for Lechmere and another killer.
Hence my 30 to 40 seconds.

And yes I doubt any two will agree.

Steve