Lechmere The Psychopath

[Elamarna]

Abby the best info on him is in a copy of Ripperologist, gives the family links. Will see if I can find it for you.

Steve

Hi Abby

Edition 124.

Steve

[Elamarna]

Thanks Harry
I never considered Jacob levy a valid suspect before.Nothing ties him to the case. Until it was found that his cousin might be one of the mitre square witnesess.

Has it been conclusively established they were cousins? if so that's a bigee for me-because now he does have an actual connection to the case, even if its peripheral.

Abby the best info on him is in a copy of Ripperologist, gives the family links. Will see if I can find it for you.

Steve

[Elamarna]

hi El

well obviously the killer, in the lech scenario, would have not found them where their bodies were found, unless he knew and knew where Kelly lived, he would have found them in the street and gone with them to the murder site.

I am assuming he found Nichols in Bucks Row but your point is valid to a degree.
However if in the 3 casrs I mentioned someone had been found by another close to the body it would be far harder to explain that away as being a chance discovery on the way to work than is the case for Lechmere..

No comprende-I have no idea what you are getting at with these two sentences-please explain.

Stride was found on the return route of the club steward, who found the body and was accused of being a member of a gang of Rippers late last year.

Eddowes to me is the only one who if someone was found close by may have a viable excuse of chance discovery. Ties in with my first point.


well in this one case of Stride, OK AK also fits the bill, but not with all of them like Lech, no?

Chapman only fits time wise if we accept the murder took place even earlier than Phillips suggests and we ignore all the witnesses.
I don't think lech ties into Stride or Eddowes. The timing seems wrong to me. Heading towards Liverpool street after Stride seems illogical. Far better to have headed East and North surely given the time.

However it's of course open to debate.



Steve

[Abby Normal]

36 Middlesex Street, which itself was a stone's throw from Goulston Street.

Thanks Harry
I never considered Jacob levy a valid suspect before.Nothing ties him to the case. Until it was found that his cousin might be one of the mitre square witnesess.

Has it been conclusively established they were cousins? if so that's a bigee for me-because now he does have an actual connection to the case, even if its peripheral.

[Elamarna]

36 Middlesex Street, which itself was a stone's throw from Goulston Street.

Hi Harry. Levy is a viable suspect if not on everbodies list

Steve

[Abby Normal]

Interesting points Abby.

If we just use the C5 for suspects, we can see that it was highly unlikely that Chapman, in a backyard, Stride in a court yard hidden in the dark, ofr Kelly could possibly be found by any suspect on his way to work.
However in the Stride case we have a man returning from work who has recently been cast as a suspect.
That leaves just Eddowes alone who could have been found by someone else.

On the issue of Stride and the proximity of his mother to the murder site, dear old AK beats it twice. At the time of the murders he was probably living in providence street, closer than Lechmere's mother. In addition he also almost certainly at one stage lived next door to Dutfields yard. It proves nothing but certainly can be said to trump Lechmere.


Steve

hi El

If we just use the C5 for suspects, we can see that it was highly unlikely that Chapman, in a backyard, Stride in a court yard hidden in the dark, ofr Kelly could possibly be found by any suspect on his way to work.

well obviously the killer, in the lech scenario, would have not found them where their bodies were found, unless he knew and knew where Kelly lived, he would have found them in the street and gone with them to the murder site.

However in the Stride case we have a man returning from work who has recently been cast as a suspect.
That leaves just Eddowes alone who could have been found by someone else.

No comprende-I have no idea what you are getting at with these two sentences-please explain.

On the issue of Stride and the proximity of his mother to the murder site, dear old AK beats it twice. At the time of the murders he was probably living in providence street, closer than Lechmere's mother. In addition he also almost certainly at one stage lived next door to Dutfields yard. It proves nothing but certainly can be said to trump Lechmere.

well in this one case of Stride, OK AK also fits the bill, but not with all of them like Lech, no?

[Elamarna]

thanks Harry
interesting. where did Jacob live and occupation?

Hi Abby.

Middlesex street and a butcher.

Steve

[Harry D]

thanks Harry
interesting. where did Jacob live and occupation?

36 Middlesex Street, which itself was a stone's throw from Goulston Street.

[Elamarna]

while I agree with this, I believe Lech is the only "suspect" where it is on record that the victims coincide with his route to work at roughly the same time, and in the case of stride his mother lived very close by. I'm not sure we can get that specific with any other suspect.

however, that being said, one of my biggest problems with Lech as a suspect, is I still have a hard time believing the ripper would be doing his thing on his way TO work. now if it coincided with his getting OFF of work....

Interesting points Abby.

If we just use the C5 for suspects, we can see that it was highly unlikely that Chapman, in a backyard, Stride in a court yard hidden in the dark, ofr Kelly could possibly be found by any suspect on his way to work.
However in the Stride case we have a man returning from work who has recently been cast as a suspect.
That leaves just Eddowes alone who could have been found by someone else.

On the issue of Stride and the proximity of his mother to the murder site, dear old AK beats it twice. At the time of the murders he was probably living in providence street, closer than Lechmere's mother. In addition he also almost certainly at one stage lived next door to Dutfields yard. It proves nothing but certainly can be said to trump Lechmere.


Steve

[Abby Normal]

Jacob Levy's brother lived in the Wentworth Building (where the GSG was found) & his cousin, the witness Joseph Levy, was described as having something to hide. He lived right in the hot-zone and he was a butcher.

thanks Harry
interesting. where did Jacob live and occupation?

[Herlock Sholmes]

It's a very simple equation and you touched on it. Like thousands of others, Charles Cross operated within the same geographical area as the Whitechapel Murderer. The killer's operation concerned finding and killing prostitutes. Cross' operation concerned getting from his home to his work and back again.

Cross would be a far more interesting suspect had he found the body and had no credible reason for being in Buck's Row at 3:40am. Imagine if MJ Druitt had found the body. Druitt lived in Blackheath. Where would he have been coming from? Where would he have been going? Cross lived in Bethnal Green and worked at Pickfords in Broad Street. He was right where he was supposed to be.

Chances were high that someone LIKE HIM would find Nichols.

Exactly Patrick. If CL had found the body and he'd gone and found a Constable on his own he would never have become a suspect. Paul's appearance gives pro-Lechmere fantasists to scream 'caught in the act! I really can't see how Fisherman can say that he's easily the likeliest candidate. The thought of CL leaving his house between 3.20-3.30 finding and killing a prostitute, making sure that he's not bloodstained then getting to work for 4.00 is ludicrous and should pretty much immediately discount him in my view.

I've asked this before but can anyone name another serial killer who committed this kind of murder on the way to work and with such a ridiculously tight time frame?

Add this to the obvious fact that he could have easily walked away to definate freedom and obscurity and we have one of the least likely rippers.

Regards
Herlock

[Harry D]

while I agree with this, I believe Lech is the only "suspect" where it is on record that the victims coincide with his route to work at roughly the same time, and in the case of stride his mother lived very close by. I'm not sure we can get that specific with any other suspect.

Jacob Levy's brother lived in the Wentworth Building (where the GSG was found) & his cousin, the witness Joseph Levy, was described as having something to hide. He lived right in the hot-zone and he was a butcher.

[Abby Normal]

It's a very simple equation and you touched on it. Like thousands of others, Charles Cross operated within the same geographical area as the Whitechapel Murderer. The killer's operation concerned finding and killing prostitutes. Cross' operation concerned getting from his home to his work and back again.

Cross would be a far more interesting suspect had he found the body and had no credible reason for being in Buck's Row at 3:40am. Imagine if MJ Druitt had found the body. Druitt lived in Blackheath. Where would he have been coming from? Where would he have been going? Cross lived in Bethnal Green and worked at Pickfords in Broad Street. He was right where he was supposed to be.

Chances were high that someone LIKE HIM would find Nichols.

while I agree with this, I believe Lech is the only "suspect" where it is on record that the victims coincide with his route to work at roughly the same time, and in the case of stride his mother lived very close by. I'm not sure we can get that specific with any other suspect.

however, that being said, one of my biggest problems with Lech as a suspect, is I still have a hard time believing the ripper would be doing his thing on his way TO work. now if it coincided with his getting OFF of work....

[Patrick S]

So we can say that CL, along with a thousand other blokes on there various ways to work, was in the general area of the 'killing ground' at roughly the times of the murders.

How is this a nail in the eye of the 'Lechmere naysayers?' CL is becoming the Frankenstein's monster of Ripperology! A lifeless corpse that you keep breathing life into by making statements such as the above one. No one has doubted that he could have been in the area. There's nothing breathtaking about it.
Looking at the times. Tabram was probably killed around 2.30. Kelly is debatable due to Maxwell and Eddowes was around 1.30. Chapman was 4.30 according to Phillips but could well have been later considering the evidence of Long and Cadosche. Was CL on flexi-hours?
You also see nothing strange about the idea of killing and mutilating on the way to work. 'I'm off to work love. Now, I must remember to buy a paper, get a packet of fags oh and kill and hideously mutilate a prostitute.'

Herlock the Naysayer

It's a very simple equation and you touched on it. Like thousands of others, Charles Cross operated within the same geographical area as the Whitechapel Murderer. The killer's operation concerned finding and killing prostitutes. Cross' operation concerned getting from his home to his work and back again.

Cross would be a far more interesting suspect had he found the body and had no credible reason for being in Buck's Row at 3:40am. Imagine if MJ Druitt had found the body. Druitt lived in Blackheath. Where would he have been coming from? Where would he have been going? Cross lived in Bethnal Green and worked at Pickfords in Broad Street. He was right where he was supposed to be.

Chances were high that someone LIKE HIM would find Nichols.

[Patrick S]

Hi Patrick and thanks for your reply. Yes, that was my point, why discuss this? A twelve year old child knows Charles Cross found the body of Polly Nichols. But obviously this is a hobby you enjoy. I would find it a chore, but since you like it, okay.

Thanks again,

Paddy

It keeps the juices flowing, so to speak. Although, I'll admit, it's becoming a chore.