Another nail in the Lechmere coffin?

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve,

did you draw any conclusions about Lechmere from your research?

Regards, Pierre

Hi Pierre,

still working on it, was out of business for a week moving back to UK, but to be honest its more about the wounds, blood and environment that I am working on.

my aim with the project I have given myself is to try and get an overview of the site that night and look at the physical evidence that was reported in very great detail. and then see comparisons with other murders.

Lechmere is not of prime importance as such in this approach, although obvious the conclusions of the work will have a significant bearing on him. .

However I have reached some tentative conclusions, no that is too strong! I have some interesting theories which need further research to reach a point where they can be put forward in detail.

These hint that Lechmere is certainly in the area of the killing within a timescale that allows him to be considered as a candidate for the killer; he MAY not however be quite as close some wish to think.

This in no way is disputing the work of Payne-James, which I believe holds basically true; it is however about the interpretation of no only the various reports from the scene but also an analysis of the wounds and blood loss.


However as Fisherman pointed out there is a great deal of material to look at and I have not finished yet so the above may be premature.



Steve

[Fisherman]

These hint that Lechmere is certainly in the area of the killing within a timescale that allows him to be considered as a candidate for the killer; he MAY not however be quite as close some wish to think.

Steve

I don´t think Jason Payne-James nourished any particular "wish" to have Lechmere placed at the murder site at the relevant time for having been the killer - I think his experience told him that this was the likeliest scenario.

He also allowed for another solution, since the truth does not always follow medical advice.

So basically what you are saying here is the same as Payne-James said: Lechmere is a logical fit, but it may have been somebody else - who would then be less logical but still viable.

I´ll be interested to see what you come up with.

[Elamarna]

I don´t think Jason Payne-James nourished any particular "wish" to have Lechmere placed at the murder site at the relevant time for having been the killer - I think his experience told him that this was the likeliest scenario.

He also allowed for another solution, since the truth does not always follow medical advice.

So basically what you are saying here is the same as Payne-James said: Lechmere is a logical fit, but it may have been somebody else - who would then be less logical but still viable.

I´ll be interested to see what you come up with.

Hi Fisherman,

When its complete it will feel confident to say a few things as probabilities.

At present they are only possibilities.

Yes I agree with Payne-James more or less.

Its certainly premature to post any firm conclusions at present.

Steve

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman,

When its complete it will feel confident to say a few things as probabilities.

At present they are only possibilities.

Yes I agree with Payne-James more or less.

Its certainly premature to post any firm conclusions at present.

Steve

I realize that. You just take your time. I´ll be ready whenever you are.

[Rainbow]

I would like to add another nail in Lechmere's coffin, but this time it will be the heaviest!

If the bleeding evidence shows that the killing must have happened in about 3-7 minutes, I am afraid, this period is too much for me!

I have the breathing evidence!!!

In the inquest, Robert Paul said:

The clothes were disarranged, and I helped to pull them down. Before I did so I detected a slight movement as of breathing, but very faint

This phrase alone incriminates Lechmere!

Since the Endotracheal of the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement because of the altered pressure in her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes before!

[Sam Flynn]

Since the Endotracheal of the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement because of the altered pressure in her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes before!

He says he detected what he thought was like the movement of breathing, not escaping air. The body could have been slightly moving for reasons other than breathing, particularly given that Nichols was being touched by the men who found her, and her clothing was in the process of being rearranged.

[Elamarna]

I would like to add another nail in Lechmere's coffin, but this time it will be the heaviest!

If the bleeding evidence shows that the killing must have happened in about 3-7 minutes, I am afraid, this period is too much for me!

I have the breathing evidence!!!

In the inquest, Robert Paul said:




This phrase alone incriminates Lechmere!

Since the Endotracheal of the victim was recently severed, and still there was a trace of air movement because of the altered pressure in her chest. that means she couldn't have been killed more than a couple of minutes before!

Interesting statements what is this breathing evidence.?
Just repeating a sound bite does not make a case,

What is the medical information or professional medical opinion you are basing this few minutes on? You must have such to make the point you suggest viable.
If it is just guess it is worthless.

Altered pressure? A cut trachaea is not the same as a puncture to the lung, i assume you realise that ?

Still, carry on with posting this way it convinces no one.
I will continue to respond to posts that suggest ideas with no supporting data or post which are factually inaccurate.

Steve

[Elamarna]

He says he detected what he thought was like the movement of breathing, not escaping air. The body could have been slightly moving for reasons other than breathing, particularly given that Nichols was being touched by the men who found her, and her clothing was in the process of being rearranged.

Good points.

Steve

[Rainbow]

He says he detected what he thought was like the movement of breathing, not escaping air. The body could have been slightly moving for reasons other than breathing, particularly given that Nichols was being touched by the men who found her, and her clothing was in the process of being rearranged.

Again and like always in the case of Lechmere, there are only those desperate trials to find another explanations to the damn mess anti-Lechmerians are in.

[Elamarna]

I would like to add another nail in Lechmere's coffin, but this time it will be the heaviest!

If the bleeding evidence shows that the killing must have happened in about 3-7 minutes, I am afraid, this period is too much for me!

Does that mean if it's 3-7 minutes until Neil arrives it devalues the case?
Or does it mean you do not accept it?


If the later, there is a need to give a fact based alternative arrival time for Neil arriving

It needs to explain how he misses seeing and being seen by either Carman and including the speed we know the Police walked at.

You must also allow for the cut to the throat, and or abdomen, the encounter between the Carmen and their examination of Nichols.


It's that simple


Steve

[Rainbow]

"In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales"

- Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest

[Elamarna]

"In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales"

- Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest

?

That really is so funny.

Posts making medical claims.
No evidence provided to back the suggestion made, refuse to address the issue when its raised and think anyone believes any of it.

Steve

[hill806]

Just out of curiosity, is there any way of finding out as to where Polly Nicholls got her bonnet? I was just wondering how she was able to afford a new bonnet. What if...just maybe, Jack the ripper bought her the bonnet. This would have allowed Jack to gain some level of trust as well as her affections. Maybe enough trust for her to agree to meet up with him again later near Bucks Row say? He may have also asked her to keep it a secret. If Lichmere was the killer he would have had to arrange for a meet up time with her that suited him and with his walk to work.

So he could have left earlier for work on this occasion in order to fit this in. Upon meeting up with Polly outside of Bucks Row( Bucks Row was apparently dangerous and notorious for attacks so cant imagine her wondering down there on her own) he then walked back into Bucks Row with her and killed her.

Also, Lichmere and Paul had never ever met before Nichols murder, even though their routes to work join up through Bucks row. How come? These men would have regularly been using the same route to get to work. If Lichmere had left for work every day at the same kind of time as he said he did when finding Nichols, you would think he would have bumped into Paul at least once or twice before this incident. So if Lechmere's times are to be believed, his and Paul's time's seperate them by amount a minute or so. So for example one of the mornings to work Lechmere gets cramp in his leg, or trips up, or forgets something and has to pop back for it etc this would have delayed his journey a minute or so thus making his time almost equal to that of Paul's.

However if his normal and regular time of leaving for work was slightly later, it would make sense as to why he's never met Paul before.

[Sam Flynn]

Re Polly's bonnet, the word "new" seems to have crept into the mythos over the years. Contemporary accounts only have her saying "see what a jolly bonnet I've got now". It could have been borrowed, found or stolen. It could have been second-hand. It might even have been a bonnet Polly already owned but which she hadn't been seen wearing before, or hadn't worn often.

However the bonnet came into her possession, it evidently wasn't "brand new" - indeed, it was described as battered and rusty in some newspaper reports.

[hill806]

Oh OK thanks Sam. Its amazing how just one word can change somethings meaning, thought or idea so drastically. Just without the word "new" changes the perspective. I always imagined it was a new bonnet she had aquired somehow after watching some of the doccumentries etc.