Lechmere was Jack the Ripper

[Michael W Richards]

Now, lets try Diemschitz again, yeah?

I think I'm beginning to see how this idea of yours germinated Fisherman. But its the last man seen with the soon to be deceased, not the first man after death.

I don't see any evidence in any of these killings that would lead someone to conclude the probable killer would, or did, loiter. That infers a lack of a attention to personal safety and liberty. I believe the killer of Polly and Annie demonstrated that overtly, I see that attention being paid by moving behind a house for the second attack.

[Fisherman]

Given what is believed about Lechmere by Fish I wondered about John Richardson.

Lechmere - alone with the corpse / Richardson - alone with the corpse.

Lechmere - could have been there earlier than he said / Richardson - could have been there earlier than he said.

Lechmere - inaccuracies in police statement / Richardson - inaccuracies in police statement.

Lechmere - only came forward because he was mentioned by Paul / Richardson - might only have come forward if he thought he’d been seen entering or leaving.

Lechmere - had Paul to confirm his actions / Richardson - had no one.

Lechmere - had to be at work by 4am / Richardson - appeared to have had to have been at work later (probably 5)

Why isn’t Richardson a suspect given the above? Does anyone know if Richardson was his real name?

He DID come under some sort of suspicion. He was sent to fetch the knife on account of how he confessed to having been alone at the murder site.

However, that was at a time that deviates from the estimate given by Phillips, something that may show us that Phillips was held high in regard for his professionalism.

Moreover, another similarity with Lechmere is that both men freely contacted the police and told them about their roles in the murder dramas, and just as that may have gotten Lechmere off the hook, the same may apply with Richardson.

We know that he lived in John Street, quite close to the Chapman murder site, and so we cannot say that we know that he had reason to pass the other sites, least of all the Eddowes and Stride sites.

He was apparently normally not out on the streets at around 2-4 am - he at least had no professional reason to be.

He did not use an alias, like Lechmere did.

There was not the matter of hidden wounds, that tends to make Lechmere attract suspicion.

He did not openly disagree with the police about what was said between him and them.

For starters.

Otherwise, John Richardson, being the dodgy witness that he is and living in the district as he did, is not a half bad suspect, and there are those who point a finger at him. Much less points to him than to Lechmere, though.

Now, lets try Diemschitz again, yeah?

[Fisherman]

A couple of questions.

One.

Polly Nichols 3.40 / Annie Chapman 3.30-5.30 / Catherine Eddowes 2.20-2.50 (depositing the apron) - 2.00+ (later if you believe Maxwell correct.)

Given these times, times that the Ripper would have had to have been out and about, would a profiler have described a killer who had to be at work at 4am every morning?

Two.

I wonder if any figures are available; any kind of percentage? Of all the unfortunate people that have discovered bodies how many turned out to be the killer? (And I’m not counting for example husbands that killed their wives, set it up to look like intruders and then ‘discovered’ the body.)

One:

We canīt tell whether the times are correct, of course - if it was Lechmere, the times may - may! - be very consistent.
Furthermore, any profiler who had these times on bhis hands would see that Eddowes and Stride were killed on what would normally have been a day off.

That leaves us with the other times, and I donīt mind including Tabram too. Would a profiler say "Gee, this must be somebody who was on his way to work and who started at 4AM".
He would instead probaly say that it was perhaps somebody who had reasons to be out at those approximate hours, since nobody saw anybody out of the ordinary.

Two:

No, I have never seen such figures. But as I told Gareth, the circumstances surrounding the Bucks Row deed were rather unique. And what we do is to a very alrge degree governed by the circumstances prevailing, as Iīm sure you will agree.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A couple of questions.

One.

Polly Nichols 3.40 / Annie Chapman 3.30-5.30 / Catherine Eddowes 2.20-2.50 (depositing the apron) -Mary Jane Kelly 2.00+ (later if you believe Maxwell correct.)

Given these times, times that the Ripper would have had to have been out and about, would a profiler have described a killer who had to be at work at 4am every morning?

Two.

I wonder if any figures are available; any kind of percentage? Of all the unfortunate people that have discovered bodies how many turned out to be the killer? (And I’m not counting for example husbands that killed their wives, set it up to look like intruders and then ‘discovered’ the body.)

A correction on my previous post.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Given what is believed about Lechmere by Fish I wondered about John Richardson.

Lechmere - alone with the corpse / Richardson - alone with the corpse.

Lechmere - could have been there earlier than he said / Richardson - could have been there earlier than he said.

Lechmere - inaccuracies in police statement / Richardson - inaccuracies in police statement.

Lechmere - only came forward because he was mentioned by Paul / Richardson - might only have come forward if he thought he’d been seen entering or leaving.

Lechmere - had Paul to confirm his actions / Richardson - had no one.

Lechmere - had to be at work by 4am / Richardson - appeared to have had to have been at work later (probably 5)

Why isn’t Richardson a suspect given the above? Does anyone know if Richardson was his real name?

[Herlock Sholmes]

A couple of questions.

One.

Polly Nichols 3.40 / Annie Chapman 3.30-5.30 / Catherine Eddowes 2.20-2.50 (depositing the apron) - 2.00+ (later if you believe Maxwell correct.)

Given these times, times that the Ripper would have had to have been out and about, would a profiler have described a killer who had to be at work at 4am every morning?

Two.

I wonder if any figures are available; any kind of percentage? Of all the unfortunate people that have discovered bodies how many turned out to be the killer? (And I’m not counting for example husbands that killed their wives, set it up to look like intruders and then ‘discovered’ the body.)

[Fisherman]

Indeed, so how can we claim that Cross' behaviour is consistent with that of a psychopathic SK, if we don't know of any psychopathic SK's behaving in a like manner under similar circumstances?

You ask, rightly, how many killers found themselves in the same position as Cross in the first place, i.e. risk being caught out by the potential arrival of third party on the scene. If the answer to this is "not many" or "none", might this not be due to the fact that, whether psychopathic or not, they did the sensible thing and fled the scene before the risk became a reality?

What other case do you know of that involves "similar circumstances"? We can easily see that if Lechmere was the killer he lied his way out and did not panick at any stage. And that is compatible with psychopathy, like it or not.

As for the second part here there can be no knowing. But letīs not try and sweep the all important factor that psychopaths will not panick under the carpet. It is something that tells them wide apart from the rest of us and that enables them to face danger and stay put where others run. Loftily speculating about how there may be cases where psychopaths DID run does nothing to change that thing. Instead, it becomes one of those "alternative innocent explanations" that you excel in.

Letīs also remind you of how risk may have been a calculated reality from the outset, even before Paul arrived. Staying put may have represented less of a risk to Lechmere than running would have.

[Fisherman]

I read, and understood, fully what you said, which is why I asked about psychopathic serial killers.
Non-psychopaths can be accomplished liars, too, and equally capable of keeping their cool.

If you understood it, why would you ask "how can Cross' behaviour be said to be consistent with what the majority of such killers would do?" as if I had ever said it was?

I am perfectly aware of how non-psychopaths can lie too, but that is kind of uninteresting in this discussion since it does nothing to take away from how psychopaths more often than not ARE accomplished liars. Which was what I said.
On a side note, I donīt think that non-psychopaths actually are "equally capable of keeping their cool". With the non-psychopath, there is always nervousness and panick to master. They are not around with the psychopath, and so he cannot have that problem.
But thatīs just my suggestion, of course - you are the psychology student, and so you should perhaps know.

[Sam Flynn]

Each case is specific, and each case must be considered on itīs own merits.

Indeed, so how can we claim that Cross' behaviour is consistent with that of a psychopathic SK, if we don't know of any psychopathic SK's behaving in a like manner under similar circumstances?

You ask, rightly, how many killers found themselves in the same position as Cross in the first place, i.e. risk being caught out by the potential arrival of third party on the scene. If the answer to this is "not many" or "none", might this not be due to the fact that, whether psychopathic or not, they did the sensible thing and fled the scene before the risk became a reality?

[Sam Flynn]

If you read it once again- more carefully this time - You may notice that I did not say what the majority of the serialists would do.

I said the majority of serialists are psychopaths.

I read, and understood, fully what you said, which is why I asked about psychopathic serial killers.

What I am saying is that if Lechmere stayed at the scene on account of being a psychopath, then that is entirely consistent with how psychopaths will not panick and how they are very accomplished liars, generally speaking.

Non-psychopaths can be accomplished liars, too, and equally capable of keeping their cool.

[Fisherman]

How many psychopathic serial killers are known to have remained at the scene and personally brought attention to their crimes?

How many serial killers are known to have had somebody arriving at the murder scene out in an open street in darkness, giving away their approach a long time before their arrival by way of the sound of their steps? And in a surrounding where it could be reasoned that there would be policemen patrolling the neighbouring streets?

Each case is specific, and each case must be considered on itīs own merits.

[Fisherman]

"the behaviour he showcased after the murder is entirely consistent with a condition that is present with the absolute majority of serial killers - psychopathy"

How many psychopathic serial killers are known to have remained at the scene and personally brought attention to their crimes? If the answer to the question is "very few" or "none", how can Cross' behaviour be said to be consistent with what the majority of such killers would do?

If you read it once again- more carefully this time - You may notice that I did not say what the majority of the serialists would do.

I said the majority of serialists are psychopaths.

What I am saying is that if Lechmere stayed at the scene on account of being a psychopath, then that is entirely consistent with how psychopaths will not panick and how they are very accomplished liars, generally speaking. The same goes for conning Mizen and reporting in at the cop shop - a psychopath could well do it that way, whereas a non-psychopath probably would not.

I donīt mind explaining what I think, but I do mind being told that I think something else.

[Sam Flynn]

"the behaviour he showcased after the murder is entirely consistent with a condition that is present with the absolute majority of serial killers - psychopathy"

How many psychopathic serial killers are known to have remained at the scene and personally brought attention to their crimes? If the answer to the question is "very few" or "none", how can Cross' behaviour be said to be consistent with what the majority of such killers would do?

[Fisherman]

I'd say that the man we're talking about was likely to a psychopath, sociopath, Schizophrenic, psychotic, etc.

And just how likely do you think it is that a schizophrenic or psychotic killer will pull of a series of murders with total stealth, killing silently outside of open windows? Just how likely is it that such a man will escape the sites when the risk gets too high, leaving no trace whatsoever behind?

I can give my answer: it is totally unlikely.

[Fisherman]

I only ever tell the truth

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

In your case, I donīt rule out that you actually think that it IS the truth that alternative innocent explanations can blow my theory out of the water.

Whether that is a good thing or not, I will leave to yourself to decide.