Alternative kosminski family

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Thanks, Robert. You are a rock star! This is from the dissertation:

"I suggest that after using Lawende in the attempt to identify Sadler, the police learned from Lawende that Levy knew more than he’d revealed. In all probability Lawende was irate at the time of the Sadler identification because of the police pressure he experienced over the past two years and wanted an end to it. I think that Levy had probably recognized the man seen with the woman at the passage, knew him as someone who worked in Butcher’s Row and knew him to be related to Martin Kosminski. Not wanting to implicate Martin Kosminski, he’d refused to give evidence in 1888. In 1891 he is contacted and taken to see a suspect. He recognizes the man, but refuses to give evidence. He then decides to get away and moves."

That's the relevant passage, to save someone else time. A man named George Hutchinson, a friend of Mary Kelly, claimed to have seen her disappear with a well-dressed man, who looked Jewish and was carrying a parcel. This man had a " thick gold chain" on his person, probably his watch chain. That's a bit prosperous for Aaron Kosminski! After that, Kelly was seen again, but the opinion is she ought to have been dead by the time Caroline Maxwell and Maurice Lewis spotted her. Can they both have been mistaken? And, yet, only one of them, the man, could possibly have had a reason to lie as to when he had seen her on the day she was discovered. Any chance of Lewis being a suspect?

How can Maxwell be telling the truth and Lewis living?

And what reason do you say Lewis had to lie.?

[Aldebaran]

How can Maxwell be telling the truth and Lewis living?

And what reason do you say Lewis had to lie.?

According to the doctors, Mary Kelly should have been dead by 8 am when Maxwell claims to have seen her. Ditto for Lewis having spotted her in the pub. Maxwell can have been mistaken and so can Lewis--but Lewis was a man. There is no way Maxwell can have been the Ripper, so there was no reason for her to lie. But Lewis is not beyond suspicion. Because he was a man and he was in the area. He told the police two women besides him had seen Mary in a pub. That seems suspicious--unless no one had any real sense of when Kelly was murdered.

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/w/Maurice_Lewis.html

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According to the doctors, Mary Kelly should have been dead by 8 am when Maxwell claims to have seen her. Ditto for Lewis having spotted her in the pub. Maxwell can have been mistaken and so can Lewis--but Lewis was a man. There is no way Maxwell can have been the Ripper, so there was no reason for her to lie. But Lewis is not beyond suspicion. Because he was a man and he was in the area. He told the police two women besides him had seen Mary in a pub. That seems suspicious--unless no one had any real sense of when Kelly was murdered.

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/w/Maurice_Lewis.html

Don't follow, either they both saw or her neither saw her seems the most logical explanation.

[Aldebaran]

Don't follow, either they both saw or her neither saw her seems the most logical explanation.

When do you think Mary Kelly died? Two women, Elizabeth Prater, who lived directly above Kelly, and Sarah Lewis, heard someone cry out "Murder" at around 4 am. To Lewis it sounded more like a scream and she thought it came from Kelly's room. Hutchinson, by his account, was hanging around in the street, but was gone by around 2:45 am. So he claimed, anyway.

I get the impression that Hutchinson was not lying about his encounter with Mary Kelly and her "gentleman", the well-dressed man. Hutchinson had known Mary about three years and had either given or loaned her small amounts of money. Mary was reputed to have been an attractive woman and why shouldn't George Hutchinson have been an admirer? I think that, when a person sees something, the amount of his interest he has in what he is viewing will probably determine how much detail he will notice. Hutchinson was accustomed to gloom--everyone in the 19th Century was because the lighting was not that good indoors or out at night. But he was leaning against the street-lamp by the pub. So I assume there was enough light for him to get a good look at the man with Mary, especially if they passed by close to him. Also, the statement of Hutchinson strikes me as more truthful due to the dialogue he supplied. Hutchinson wasn't Charles Dickens and probably didn't have the kind of imagination that would prompt him to toss in a few lines in order to give more credence to his account. The questionable part is whether or not he actually saw this punter leave. Hutchinson says he didn't--and that is the part that gives Hutchinson, himself, an alibi.

[GUT]

When do you think Mary Kelly died? Two women, Elizabeth Prater, who lived directly above Kelly, and Sarah Lewis, heard someone cry out "Murder" at around 4 am. To Lewis it sounded more like a scream and she thought it came from Kelly's room. Hutchinson, by his account, was hanging around in the street, but was gone by around 2:45 am. So he claimed, anyway.

I get the impression that Hutchinson was not lying about his encounter with Mary Kelly and her "gentleman", the well-dressed man. Hutchinson had known Mary about three years and had either given or loaned her small amounts of money. Mary was reputed to have been an attractive woman and why shouldn't George Hutchinson have been an admirer? I think that, when a person sees something, the amount of his interest he has in what he is viewing will probably determine how much detail he will notice. Hutchinson was accustomed to gloom--everyone in the 19th Century was because the lighting was not that good indoors or out at night. But he was leaning against the street-lamp by the pub. So I assume there was enough light for him to get a good look at the man with Mary, especially if they passed by close to him. Also, the statement of Hutchinson strikes me as more truthful due to the dialogue he supplied. Hutchinson wasn't Charles Dickens and probably didn't have the kind of imagination that would prompt him to toss in a few lines in order to give more credence to his account. The questionable part is whether or not he actually saw this punter leave. Hutchinson says he didn't--and that is the part that gives Hutchinson, himself, an alibi.

We were talking about Lewis and Maxwell... Not hutch.

I am willing to take them at face value which puts Mary's murder later in the morning, at least until someone proves them wrong. Maxwell was unshaken in the witness box about what she saw.'