When did Aaron Koz come to Police attention?

[Batman]

Swanson might not have had a clue of any kind. But it might be argued 'He would say that wouldn't he' The police were having lots of trouble with press men interfering and compromising the police leads… Schwartz Mrs Mortimer and Paker were never called at the inquest.. Swanson also said some 80 suspects were being looked into, including Medical Students, lunatics and Wild Indians…. This was the early stages of an investigation.

Yours Jeff

Cox was a CID officer. That makes him city police.
Cox did a post-MJK investigation watching someone who has not been identified.

The speculation goes like this...

The City Police and the Met both watched the same man at different times and didn't collaborate together on it.

Did the city police go into met grounds and the met police go into city ground, without telling each other. Likely they did, but told each other well in advance. If they did, then they collaborated. If not, then we would have a clash of forces over the matter, no?

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff,

"... Anderson is clear and Sawanson underlines, while he was still abroad, and therefore shortly after the Double event."

But Swanson's report in the police files shows the house to house search referred to did not included properties south of Commercial Road, e.g Batty and Providence Streets.

Also after those searches both Warren, "... these have no tangible result..." and Anderson, " ... without our having the slightest clue of any kind..." claimed no information was found that was of any use.

Hi Dr

I'm trying to combine what Anderson said with Rob House Batty Street theory.

Anderson says he was away when the House to House turn up 'blood stains'

On Page 129 Prime Suspect: " It is important to note the the article was based primarily on information gathered from Neighbours, not the landlady herself. The landlady was described as very reticent in speaking to reporters and did not say much . apart from corroborating the fact that 'a detective and two police officers had been in the house ever since her information was given."

Given the proximity of 22 Batty St to Dutfeild Yard its reasonable that police soon picked up on what was being said on the street in the area. And clearly Detectives were talking directly to Mrs Keur.

Swanson might not have had a clue of any kind. But it might be argued 'He would say that wouldn't he' The police were having lots of trouble with press men interfering and compromising the police leads… Schwartz Mrs Mortimer and Paker were never called at the inquest.. Swanson also said some 80 suspects were being looked into, including Medical Students, lunatics and Wild Indians…. This was the early stages of an investigation.

Yours Jeff

[drstrange169]

Hello Jeff,

"... Anderson is clear and Sawanson underlines, while he was still abroad, and therefore shortly after the Double event."

But Swanson's report in the police files shows the house to house search referred to did not included properties south of Commercial Road, e.g Batty and Providence Streets.

Also after those searches both Warren, "... these have no tangible result..." and Anderson, " ... without our having the slightest clue of any kind..." claimed no information was found that was of any use.

[Batman]

The thing about the metal collapse hypothesis is that these killers don't stop when their mind mentally deteriorates, they just mess up and get caught like Dahmer. I don't think it overrides their compulsiveness to murder strangers.

----

Schwartz was described as a strong jewish appearance so I suppose there is some way to determine so.

[GUT]

Koz was 16 when he arrived in England, about 1881?

So probably still had a pretty good accent in 1888.

[Wickerman]

Koz was 16 when he arrived in England, about 1881?

[Abby Normal]

Witness testimonies can vary. Each individual observing will have different critia…

So its not worth getting bogged down with…

Of the suspects witnessed at the Kelly murder scene…Hutchinsons suspect, if he wasn't making it up, best fits Koz…

That said it aint a great fit, from what we know..but we know very little

Yours Jeff

Hi jeff
Do we know if koz would be speaking with an accent in fall of 88? How long had he been in England by that time?

[Wickerman]

Of the suspects witnessed at the Kelly murder scene…Hutchinsons suspect, if he wasn't making it up, best fits Koz…

Hi Jeff.
Is there a physical description of Kozminski?

Then another question might be, how many descriptions do you have of other people in order to make a comparison with that given by Hutchinson?

Do you mind if I take a guess at both answers?
No, and none?

[Jeff Leahy]

Ok I see you got the age difference. The only other point of interest is, when age estimates were given by witnesses (usually of the victims) they typically underestimated the age, not overestimated.

Witness testimonies can vary. Each individual observing will have different critia…

So its not worth getting bogged down with…

Of the suspects witnessed at the Kelly murder scene…Hutchinsons suspect, if he wasn't making it up, best fits Koz…

That said it aint a great fit, from what we know..but we know very little

Yours Jeff

[Abby Normal]

Hutchinsons man is age 34-35.

Kozminski was 23.

age is hard to nail-especially if your trying to describe someone not of your background.

But then again, I don't see how Koz could be Aman-an Affluent, smooth talking individual.

Maybe Chapman as Aman, I could see, except for no accent.

But then again I don't really see Aman (via Hutch)at all.

[Wickerman]

I read your answer again and I have another question. Is Kozminski Hutchinson's suspect?

Ok I see you got the age difference. The only other point of interest is, when age estimates were given by witnesses (usually of the victims) they typically underestimated the age, not overestimated.

[Jeff Leahy]

I would respectfully submit that casting Kosminski in the role of Hutchinson's Astrakhan man would not be an advantage to any theory exploring Kosminski's potential culpability as ripper. I can explain why, but the result will be a full-on Hutchinson thread, and I'm sure we don't want one of those here!

I will try and stear clear, as I will of Packer. They are only really of interest in wider context.

Besides there's a lot of Cox and Sagar to get through

Yours Jeff

[Ben]

I would respectfully submit that casting Kosminski in the role of Hutchinson's Astrakhan man would not be an advantage to any theory exploring Kosminski's potential culpability as ripper. I can explain why, but the result will be a full-on Hutchinson thread, and I'm sure we don't want one of those here!

[Jeff Leahy]

Thanks Jeff
Regardless of a missing file, which I guess could explain why no mention of his name in the record until many years, then why would the ID still take so long to perform (years?) from Oct 88, when they have his name and a clue?

When are you proposing the ID took place and whats your general timeline re all the events surrounding Kosminski-including his stints in the workhouse and asylum, possible surveillance by Cox, ID mentioned by Anderson/swanson, etc.?

Just let me preface this by saying that I have read Robs book and seen your doc(both which are excellent) and think that Kosminski is one of a handful of suspects that I find viable.

If you could provide a quick thumbnail timeline on your take of the events surrounding Kosminski it would be very interesting and much appreciated!!!

Yes Robs book is excellent.. I believe his Batty Street Lodger theory is correct. It certain matches what Anderson says about the 'Blood Stains in Secret'

I will expand later in the week on when and how I believe the ID happened. I think Rob makes a mistake believing that Griffiths expands on Anderson in 1895… I don't think Griffiths or MacNaughten knew anything about the ID discussed by Anderson and Swanson…not a bean. Griffiths was only aware that Anderson had a be in his bonnet about not getting a conviction and 'moral certainty'. Anderson's story is thus pure simple and direct.. Its the same story he tells in 1892, long before the Memoranda.

My theory will hopefully explain why MAcNaughten favoured Druit, why Abberline Chapman and why the various policeman's accounts are what they are.

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff,

£40 a week! Was he a member of the aristocracy? That would have been an enormous income for the period. To put things into perspective a highly paid clerk working for a stockbroking firm would earn less than £5 per week in 1890: see http://www.academia.edu/3710075/Work...lerk_revisited By further comparison in 1891 the average annual salary of a surgeon was £475.47, and a barrister £1342.60:

Could it perhaps be £40 per year?

I can only give you what it says on Page 38 of prime suspect.

"In Busiest season (May June July) he can make £40 a week"

I agree this is a vast sum of money. Woolf also possessed a Silver Pocket watch and Chain… Which beggars the question why he moved from Provenance St to a poor house in Yalford St in March 1889..

The same time I believe Aaron entered a Private Asylum.. Were cutbacks made to cover the cost?

Yours jeff